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niva Inner circle Malta (Europe) 2970 Posts |
ixnay66 I understand your point about books and the internet... but the internet is so useful nowadays and it's a shame not to use it properly. Besides, I am from Malta, and here we haven't got any magic shops, like you do. The demos are such a valuable thing for me as I cannot watch a trick being performed before I buy it, like when you go to your local magic dealer. I would have to ask someone who might have bought it and give me his review of it. I hope you understand my point. And that's why I hate when a demo is misleading (the Wilson's one is not misleading, but just doesn't show the effect) for marketing purposes.
I have a question too. Our paper currency, here in Malta, apart from being of different colour for different values, it is made of different sizes. Does that mean I cannot do the transformation from low values to higher values? I think I would have to transform some blank papers into bills, in that case. Shame. See you Ivan
Yours,
Ivan |
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Tim Trono Inner circle 1114 Posts |
Both DVDs are excellent and both have very good points.
Slow Burn is NOT angly and if you try it for real people you will clearly see this. Also, the idea that folding the bills after the change somehow minimizes the impact is crazy. Actually Greg touches on this somewhat in his Hundy 500. It’s almost as if they see one bill change and you are kind of “teasing” them then open the bills to show all have changed. Greg uses this very effectively in Hundy 500 and it really applies to Slow Burn as well. I was also amazed by some of the comments about the clip on Hundy 500. The description of what happens is quite clear in the ad copy and I think what Greg wanted people to see is how powerful this routine is. The clips he used were not prepared, coaxed, etc. This is standard reaction. I have seen Greg do this handling dozens of times for real people and it consistently gets a great reaction. I can tell you with certainty that there were not dozens and dozens of clips shot and only a few used. As a matter of fact, they had to really go through lots of great reactions and decided to pick various “segments” of the population to show it works across the board. I also find it amazing that the DVD gets slammed and no one takes the time to applaud them for the time and effort in a top notch production. I wrote about this under a posting about the new Jim Pace DVD… How can someone responsibly talk about something if you haven’t seen it? There were posts about Hundy 500 before it was even out. How can someone comment positively or negatively about something they have not seen???? I can tell you that this is extremely discouraging for those involved. This is a routine Greg uses and carries with him constantly. I saw Greg use Hundy 500 a few years back and begged to learn this but he wasn’t spilling this to anyone. I would have paid a lot more than the cost of the DVD to learn this. So he eventually decides to release it and there are very few comments about the fabulous production, the strength of the item, the practicality, the great attention to detail in the teaching of this, etc. Instead people complain about the clip and use that as an excuse to put it down. Do you think that will discourage Greg and others from doing future releases? You bet it will! Greg asked me for some help on Hundy 500 (planning, background, etc.) and I know he spent many many hours working on this DVD. But I can tell you he and other artists do get discouraged reading irresponsible posts with no backing. It’s a shame as it might eliminate future releases of some really great material. If you don’t like something you’ve seen and you can tellwhy then it is constructive for everyone. OK enough of the soap box. If you want to learn this effect I’d strongly recommend both Slow Burn and Hundy 500. I am a big advocate of looking into all of the available versions so as to really understand an effect and decide what parts are right for you. When I wrote up Roger Klause’s “Whisper” as an example, I included every other source I could find so that someone really wishing to learn this routine could study other resources. Patrick Page was the inventor of the paper to bill effect. Patrick is one of the all time overlooked brilliant creators. Since Patrick created it there have been versions marketed by Fred Kaps, Bob King, Jim Pace, and others. If you’ve ever seen Tim Conover do this effect you will know how much it slaughters people. The first time I saw Greg do Hundy 500 was at a magic convention in Connecticut. There were a bunch of high school football players with the “we own this place” attitude in the hall and making lots of noise outside of the room we were working on some material in. Greg went out to ask them to quiet down and they had a “you can’t fool me” frame of mind. Greg quickly said, “Hey, watch this” and performed Hundy 500- it killed them. They were screaming and running away. I was amazed as I had not seen this before. After that, Greg “owned” these guys. No more loud yelling outside. Richard Sanders then sent me a clip of his Slow Burn. After watching it all I could say was that it looked like real magic with the change. The change is fabulous and looks like trick photography. If you try this you will see the idea of bad angles is simply not valid. It kills. I have used this and it looks as good in person as it does on the clips. Both DVDs give great thoughts, etc. Slow Burn and Hundy 500 are, in my opinion, both huge winners. Tim Trono |
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Joshua Quinn Inner circle with an outer triangle 2054 Posts |
Tim, thanks for your input on both these effects.
Just to clarify something, since I was one of the people who was less than happy with the Hundy preview clip: My disappointment (and I think most other people's) was with the fact that the clip doesn't show how the effect looks. Yes, the ad copy describes what happens, but so does the ad copy for every other trick with a video clip... and all the other clips still show you how the tricks look, because that's what people watch them for. That's not meant to imply anything disparaging about the Greg or his effect, and I would hope that he and anyone else involved would be able to distinguish between unfair criticism of his effect, and fair criticism of a preview clip that doesn't provide the info that people expect from it. At any rate, based on the positive comments from those who have tried it, I do plan on getting Hundy 500. Or Slow Burn... I haven't decided yet. Tim, since you're a fan of both, which is your pick for use under fire? Say you're walking down the sidewalk in L.A. and a trio of 19-year-old hotties approaches you and asks to see some magic (which seems to happen so often). In one pocket you've got the setup for Hundy 500, and in the other, Slow Burn. Which one do you reach for and why? Quinn
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
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Tim Trono Inner circle 1114 Posts |
I actually use parts from both so I guess I'd pull the set out from my back pocket and do the one I created using ideas from both LOL. I had initially learned Greg's routine but then added some of the stuff from Slow Burn along with a few ideas I had as far as a different way to get into it. So what I use is really a blend.
I only wish I had the scenario you mentioned. Sorry I can't give a choice of one over the other. Both are really good and actually both Richard Sanders and Greg Wilson speak highly of each others routine. I can say this though... Greg does his routine so much he has some really invaluable lines, thoughts on handling the spectators, etc. that make his DVD invaluable for these points alone. Richard's routine has the change that really looks like magic. It's cool just to practice it and watch it in the mirror. Not to throw a wrench in the mix but you should also check out Hypno-Bill. It looks awesome. I haven’t tried this yet but think about combining it with the above. First one changes then the stack… Tim Trono |
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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
Hello Tim:
I bought "flash cash" years ago and have never cared for it much. It's a very striking effect, but I've never liked how "angly" it is. I think Michael Ammar demonstrates the effect on one of is "Easy to Master..." videos. I still didn't like it because the handling always looks a bit tight - it never looks (to me, at least) very natural. So, can you tell me, does Greg's version solve all this? Is the DVD mostly Greg's touches and nuances on this same technique? Or has he eliminated the drawbacks? I want to get the DVD, but I'm real tired of being dissappointed on my purchases. Thanks for any help you can provide. Ron Reid |
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Tim Trono Inner circle 1114 Posts |
Hi Ron.
The gimmick that Michael Ammar uses is basically the same gimmick that Fred Kaps used. This is different than the one used here. I'll try not to reveal anything but the gimmick used by Kaps and Ammar is a "Z" gimmick while the gimmick used by Pat Page and the versions noted above are "X" gimmicks. I don't find Slow Burn or Hundy 500 to be at all cozy and this is one of the things Greg really emphasizes on his DVD- a very open and free handling. When I first saw Greg do this I was quite familiar with this type of routine but Greg fooled me pretty badly due to this open handling. There was nothing cozy about it and that actually “got me”. Again, it's hard to say which I prefer: Hundy 500 or Slow Burn. Both offer some very important aspects. Slow Burn is also handled very openly and no cozy stuff going on here. The thing that stands out with Slow Burn is the visual change. It is incredible. As I mentioned in a prior post, the folding over segment at the end actually strengthens the effect as it seems like you are kind of teasing them and stopping short so when you open the packet and show the rest of the bills have changed they freak. Greg's change on Hundy 500 is faster but looks great as well. The main benefits to Greg's DVD for me are: his thoughts on making it look open and free (not cozy as you mentioned), and his lines and thoughts (which will save you lots of aggravation when you start to do this for real people - this is the stuff Greg learned from the school of hard knocks and is imparting here). For the extra money, if you are going to do this effect, you should own both. Both DVDs take you through in great detail. One interesting thing on Hundy 500 is on certain sections it allows you to switch tracks and look at angles you choose... to do this you simply hit you "angle" button on your DVD remote on the sections noted where you can do this. We are using this technology on the upcoming "Paul Wilson on The Royal Road to Card Magic" DVDs. Richard Sanders really takes you through great deal on his DVD as well and teaches it to you from over the shoulder (your angle) so you don’t have to try to contort your body as you watch your TV. One advantage of this type of effect is that it does not have some of the angle restrictions that a $100 Bill Switch might (though wait until you see some of the fabulous handlings in the big upcoming bill switch book “Switch!” that John Lovick and I are working on). Also, if you could really do magic you’d probably pull all of the bills out of your pocket/wallet and just change them all. Tim Trono |
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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
Hi Tim:
Excellent...thanks for your detailed explanation. I will purchase both items and will post my thoughts as soon as possible. Thanks again - I appreciate you taking the time. Best Regards, Ron Reid |
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qkeli Special user paris,france 792 Posts |
I think "Hundy 500" is a great DVD and the effect on it is well described and very clear!!!
Too bad euro bills don't have the same size at all. If anyone knows any foreign bills that're the same size as the 20 euro bills, let me know! Sure you can always do a blank to money effect or something else but the changing money value is great!! Good investment!! You can get it at magicwarehouse for $25!! |
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elushinz Regular user Sunny Orlando 132 Posts |
Just made it with 2 dollar bills changing into twenties. Wow! It is such a sweet effect. I am debating saving up for the six hundred and six dollar version because this one really kicks. If you do it, you know what I mean.
"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be f@#d up."
Mitch Hedburg |
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Tim Trono Inner circle 1114 Posts |
Hi Elushinz. It's worth the investment to use $100 bills. If you ever get in a major crunch you can essentially use the gimmick or if the gimmick gets beat up you can cash it in and make a new one, but the $100's DO make an impact. I'd STRONGLY suggest making it up in that format.
I didn't think I was going to tip this BUT... you'll have to do some real searching if you want to do this anyway. Look for Roger Klause's "Count Van Klause" in Kenner’s Magic Man Examiner #3 (which is what WILL be hard to track down). It is an unbelievable deceptive false count of 4 bills as 5. This is the big tip. Thus I take out and hand out 4 $1 bills and talk about cons much in the way Greg Wilson does on Hundy 500. I then do the Klause count with the bills to "show" them how a con works (again per Hundy 500 but using Klause's count which just looks SO good). I quickly go to put the bills away (actually they go in a Sho-Gun or Himber wallet). I then advise that "if I were magic" I wouldn't con them, I'd use magic. I open the wallet taking out the gimmicked stack. I use a combination of displays of openness and thoughts from Sander's Slow Burn and Wilson's Hundy 500. I then use the Sander's Slow Burn visible change so the four $1 bills they have supposedly examined change to four $100 bills. You DON'T want to miss out on the lines and thoughts Greg Wilson has on Hundy 500 as I GUARANTEE you that you will need these (or you'll have to learn from the school of hard knocks). Tim Trono |
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elushinz Regular user Sunny Orlando 132 Posts |
Thanks Trono,
I just finished a good night of fun incorporating the twos to twenties. It was a killer. I can honestly say that all of the lines on the DVD are mentioned at some point or another. Learn the DVD. Get a good gig. Make the 600 dollar gimmick. I am going to the bank manana. Have fun and do it well...
"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be f@#d up."
Mitch Hedburg |
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Amon-Re New user Holland 86 Posts |
A question and idea:
I can't find anybody discussing whether they prefer too change 4 bills (Sanders) or 5 bills (Wilson). I would be very interested in which amount of bills you prefer. Myself I would like too do it with 5 bills the odd number just feels better to handle and there are more bills to cover the "thick" packet. An idea I had was to put a dog-ear in one of the bills which you don't comment on but is clearly visible for the spectators, then when the bills change this dog-ear is still in one of the bills. Would this be a convincer to the audience as for them to think the bills really changed? Cheers, Remon |
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elushinz Regular user Sunny Orlando 132 Posts |
Remon,
Sounds like a good idea. I'll give it a try tonight. I mentioned using the 2 to 20's before and find that opening with the Ammar 2 dollar to 2 ones mentioning their current worth (two dollars), I go into the fact that my grandma used to give me, and still does, twos for my birthday and holidays. She also told me to save them and one day they'll be worth something. Well, 20 years later... still two. I then bring out the packet of twos for the Hundy effect and say, "Let's see what it would be like if they were worth something." Basically that in essence. I am working with the patter to see what response gets what. I think I will construct the 100 version as well because I'm getting, "So now can you change my ones to hundreds?" I can't wait to nail 'em next week after my little trip to the bank. Listen to your audience as Greg mentions on the DVD. You get the best lines. Tim
"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be f@#d up."
Mitch Hedburg |
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Tim Trono Inner circle 1114 Posts |
Hi Remon. Good idea. I might suggest actually marking the top $1 bill so it looks like one of those small stamps you sometimes see stamped lightly on a bill... almost like graffiti... something like "Bank of America" or some small graffiti like mark. DO NOT mention it. Then when the bills change the top $100 bill has the mark. Kind of a subliminal punch.
Tim Trono |
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ESP Guy Regular user Falls View, Vermont 137 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-02-06 20:13, Tim Trono wrote: I would NEVER change US bills to other US bills with Slow Burn. The COLOR-CHANGE that occurs with US & foreign money is soooooooooo much more VISUAL! Thom |
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elushinz Regular user Sunny Orlando 132 Posts |
does anyone performing this wonderful effect find that if, in fact, you are working for tips at times people might think... wow, impressive, he obviously doesn't need my help. [financially] just a thought...
"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be f@#d up."
Mitch Hedburg |
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Tim Trono Inner circle 1114 Posts |
I've always found I get my biggest tips in restaurant work when I don't seem to "need them". Thus I always work for a wage in a restaurant gig.... it actually helps the tips as you are not as "hungry" for them. Whether you use Hundy 500 or Slow Burn this is a hard effect to beat as if you were really magic, this is what you'd do.
Tim |
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elushinz Regular user Sunny Orlando 132 Posts |
Good stuff Tim.
I appreciate your insight. Still waiting to "upgrade" to the big daddy version. Tim P.
"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be f@#d up."
Mitch Hedburg |
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AlexWong Veteran user 371 Posts |
I wonder under what circumstances to use this effect. And this idea pops into my head...
When footing the bill for, let's say, a dinner. Assuming the cost is, er... 25 bucks. Pull out a stack of ones and count.... oops, I only have 4 bucks... erm... never mind, give me a second. Pass your hand over it, changing it to 20s, and use the ungimmcked ones to foot the bill. You can always load it again later... What do you think? |
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elushinz Regular user Sunny Orlando 132 Posts |
Alex,
I had to "actually" use a few of my twenties from the stack every now and then even when i wasn't using them during the trick. I try hard to not 'dip' into the tricky funds, but sometimes a girl has a breakdown...
"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be f@#d up."
Mitch Hedburg |
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