It seems that everyone is always talking about exposures. Is it really that much worse now? Growing up you could always find expalnations and "how to" perform magic tricks in the library and bookstores. Those sections use to be much larger than they are now. Granted, now there are exposures on internet sites such as you tube can reach more people and do it much fster. Aren't they are just using the most recent technology to expose/teach tricks just like people use to do in books and magazines.

We all have to remember that a vast majority of people searching for and watching tricks on you tube, etc... are interested in magic. Most people are too busy searching for info on the most recent Britany Spears incident to really care about how someone did a cups and balls routine.

Sounds like you don't believe in google or how easy it is to find stuff out now.

Imagine doing some magic, then someone rushes over to their PC, a few seconds later they have the data onscreen they they go and spoil the fun for everyone else at the party.

Wait till you have a secret...

Magic books are not exposure material and are educational in nature, written for the magician in mind. They don't demean magic the way many exposure explanations do.

There's a huge difference between exposure and teaching. Exposure tends to be "This is the method and so you see, you realise how stupid you are for being fooled." It always nearly goes like "This is so easy you could do it too." when in fact, it is so far from true because there's so much more to just the method behind the trick.

Also, these people who expose tricks are probably the same people who go around all day looking for tricks that are exposed by others and passing these around to their friends. If they respected magic, they wouldn't be exposing it like such. It's really disgusting especially when these people expose marketted effects.

Not when they are offered or made available to the general public via advertising or via public libraries or online.

Yeah, but I first learned magic through the library when I was a kid. It was basic magic...French drops and broken matches through handkerchiefs and the like, but it was a beginning.
Without the library books I might not have gotten into magic in a real way later...and purchased things from the Vic Lawston catalog, and hung around the local magic shop trading moves with other magicians.

now you know.

What do you want to do about it?

What do you suggest?

I know who you are...I'm a little in awe speaking with you at all. (gulp)

If it helps...

As I see it the fight is to make things better so YOU can enjoy YOUR IDEAS in safety. I feel that is worth fighting for.

Also our craft CAN be some much more fun and respectable that it is at present.

And our literature can be SPECIAL and inspiring instead of rehashed junk written poorly without any place in our larger history. But before we can make our literature special we need to make it safe from prying eyes.

:)

But how DO you fight that? You can't prevent people from publishing. And there will always be a "Masked Magician" anxious to make a few bucks.

And, while I don't believe that copyrighted information belongs "to the people" (I make a living as a writer. I would rather people BUY my stuff than pull it off of the internet), I don't know how you keep someone from explaining how something is done. Free speech and all that.

I mean...it should be a matter of simple ethics--if you know, you ruin it by telling.
But not everyone out there is a magician.
Not everyone cares.
And you can't stop them because there isn't a law in place to stop them--not really.
And any law that would be effective could also be fiercely misused.

Y'know?

As a man thinketh...

A good place to start is The Structure of Magic vols 1,2 by Richard Bandler.

We can get to reframing when ready

;)

Okay. I don't own those (My library's kinda huge, but doesn't include those), but I will find them, buy them and read them. Promise.

For now, I'm leaving for a bit. I'll watch this thread closely. Thanks, Jonathan.

I found some secrets that stay secret pretty darned well.

Wanna know how?

1 - They're expensive. RED HOT COLD READING and KING OF THE COLD READERS, and others like them, are usually priced way too high to be bought by the "idly curious." Kinda helps keep the lid on. It's not an "unbreakable barrier" to exposure, nothing really is ... but it's darned effective.

2 - They're not advertised to most magicians. Telling all magicians that something special is available is a bit like telling Congress that a certain report contains secret information ... it'll be leaked before you can drive home, probably before you even get to your car. The most amazing stuff I ever saw was taught in books/videos/seminars that were publicized to a select group.

Exposure? Magicians, considered as a group, are their own worst enemies - in another thread, I stood up for the duffers (Uncle Fred who knows a couple of tricks, or the old guy at the IBM meeting who could teach you some great stuff if only you could pry him away from the bar) but they can be a PITA more often than not.

How about just keeping secrets, well secret?

The real secret is you. How you perform. Attitude. Arrangements. If you are doing it right nobody will worry about the secrets, they will be happy to have been fooled.

If you don't get it all they will want to know is, "How is it done?"

Pete, with all due respect, what you described above is the secret to ENTERTAINING, and that is not specific to magic.

One can be liked and count rice crispies or read the phone book... but that is not the same as being an EFFECTIVE magician and leaving them with plenty to remember and tell friends about seeing impossible things happening.

Can you imagine someone seeing Harbin do the zig-zag and talking about it as a "nice contortionist thing where the assistant stands *** and the volunteer tickles *** and box looks really nice and hides so much"?

Or how about the Asrah as that cute trick where the wire thing *** the rafters and the couch cushions are ***?

Something lacking there right?

And that something is secrets.

Without its secrets our craft in performance is dance, juggling, drama... but not MAGIC.

It is the secrets which permit he Asrah to take our breath away with the covering cloth.

:)

*note: I put the asterisks so's not to expose here as per Café rules -JT

I agree entirely Jonathan. I do support the concept that it is all about entertainment, and the effect on the audience is the top priority, but I take exception to performers taking this to the extreme and not caring about roping people into the secret as stooges, using stage assistants they only met yesterday, and so on. If the secret goes, then so does the mystique and we may as well just learn to dance and sing, and save a fortune on the props we buy.

It is sad that there is so much info available on the Net. I don't just mean people saying how they think something is done, I mean entire dvds by top names made available lock stock and barrel even whole sets, available on certain download sites. This threatens what has been one of our main protections so far, the fact that very few people will invest money just to learn how it is done. But if they can just download for free, on the other hand, then you never know if that computer-savvy young punk in the audience may have just watched banachek, daryl or Tamariz last week.

I get the feeling that from their perspective it's just "sharing some files that are publicly available" and our secrets are just hyped trivia.

And sometimes I wonder if their perspective is valid.

I guess they are to some extent. I mean we're talking about plastic fingers, cards stuck together, fingers held in a certain position to hide an item...

I think they believe that our secrets should be publicly available in the first place, rather than kept to the privileged few. What they do not seem able to appreciate is that if we are 'privileged' by being privy to these secrets, it is because we paid for it with years of training, dedication and of course, the hard earned cash we pay for props, books and dvds!

Ut perserve , servo is a specialis

To perserve, keep it a secret.