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Bill Palmer
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Leland:

I couldn't agree with you more.

I could have cobbled a table together similar to the one I posted for about $30.00. It wouldn't have had the turned spindles, and the top would have been made of 1/4" CD plywood. That $30 doesn't include the expense for the table saw, or the electricity, or the education behind how to do it.

If all you care about is how cheap you can go, then work off the top of a cardboard box. Use drinking cups that you beg from the gilpins.

I would be very uncomfortable performing with a rig like that.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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ed rhodes
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I understand what you're saying, but as someone else mentioned, will you make fatter hats because of the turned spindles?

I don't want to use paper cups for my Cups and Balls (for a while I was using plastic party cups that worked just fine, but not paper) but neither can I justify $150.00 to $400.00 for hand turned brass cups with gold inlays.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Bill Palmer
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I don't know whether you will get fatter hats because of turned spindles. But an act is not just the tricks, the props, the costumes and the repartee. It's a total experience. I personally feel that when I go out in front of an audience, I must give them something that they will feel is worth paying for. I certainly could't do that with a bunch of cardboard boxes.

You can't get hand turned brass cups with gold inlays that cheap. I challenge you to find ANY place that I have advocated using cups of that type on the street -- or anything else other than a good, sturdy set of street cups.

I don't know why you are asking these questions, anyway. I doubt that you have ever even busked before.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
ed rhodes
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And how much do those "good sturdy street cups" go for?

You're right, the gold inlay cups cost four figures. *yikes*
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Dave V
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All sorts of "good sturdy street cups" can be had for about $200. Most Animal cups, Cellini's, RNT2, etc... are in this general price range. Those are the ones I wouldn't cry about if they hit the pavement as I know they're likely to survive to perform another day.
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Bill Palmer
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I haven't seen any gold inlay cups.

As far as the price of a set of cups -- if all you care about is how much they cost, you miss the point of having good tools to work with.

If you are a woodworker, you don't skimp on the cost of your tools. You buy the best ones for the purpose. Why? Because you only have to buy them once.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Danny Hustle
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I know a guy right now that gets $150 hats that does his cups and balls routine with some god awful bright orange plastic cups that he got in walmart for about two bucks.

He has used the same cups for the past five years.

It ain't the size of the wand it's the magic in the performer.

Best,

Dan-
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ttorres
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Amen, Danny!
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TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
On 2007-04-22 01:46, Danny Hustle wrote:
I know a guy right now that gets $150 hats that does his cups and balls routine with some god awful bright orange plastic cups that he got in walmart for about two bucks.

He has used the same cups for the past five years.

It ain't the size of the wand it's the magic in the performer.

Best,

Dan-


I'm too infatuated with nice props to be able to do this but I admire his ability to focus on what is important for a busker. GTFM.
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Pokie-Poke
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Quote:
On 2007-04-22 01:46, Danny Hustle wrote:

It ain't the size of the wand it's the magic in the performer.

Best,

Dan-

that's the point. I can't beat that.
I would be proud to use one of Frank's tables (or like Bill made) when doing fairs and the like as this needs to be reliable and look the part. however in the real streets I would not want to risk it. Not the tables fault. Where you work will dictate what props will stay with you, and what you leave home.
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The Adventure cont...
Bill Palmer
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I think you are paranoid about someone nicking your props. Ask people like Gazzo and Cellini how often they actually lose their props.

The cops are much more likely to bust someone who is working on cardboard boxes than they are someone who looks like a legitimate entertainer. Three card monte workers and shell game artists are more likely to work on cardboard boxes than other buskers.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
ed rhodes
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Bill, I think you're trying to "black and white" the situation a bit.

It's not a question of "$120 tables" vs "cardboard boxes." In between those two extremes are a vast range of opportunities for performing surfaces.

The "waiter's stand" with top is hardly a cardboard box, but it serves the purpose for those who choose to use it.

My own answer (on those sadly infrequent times I manage to perform) is a plastic/metal thing I found at Wal*Mart. It's marketed at $20, but the one I bought was marked down to $5! (The only trouble I have with it is it's so useful around the house I have to search around to find it!) At 28" high, it's probably too short for most of you, but it seems to suit <me> fine.

Your table is a fine piece of craftmanship and you have a right to be proud of it and of your work on it. But it's simply not a question of "you're using <my> standards or you have cardboard boxes on a trash barrel."
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Pokie-Poke
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Me and Bill are using extremes to make a point as no table, set of cups, or what ever will not make a hill of differents if you got no show. Likewise every ones pitch is different. so there props will be also.

as far as the cops go, the pitches I used for the example the cops are more likely to bust you if you look to comfortable. If the cops take your good stuff, and you need to wade thew a month of bureaucracy to get it back. (if you do). you will think twice before going back, and that's what the cops want. Is it worth working a pitch like this? for some yes, but you need to be smart about it.
The "real" street is dyeing so this is of little meaning to most.

Oh and on the random times I use a table It is a wood tray table that is on the short side.
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garyanimal
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I have been a real street performer for 20 years and worked all over the planet often without a work permit and always without permission from anyone. I have never lost anything and never has a cop even hinted at taking my stuff. It's true the usa is somewhat different and generally one of the countries that seems to lack a certain amount of personal freedoms. Now that's ironic concidering how much the usa goverment spouts on about it. In Europe you'll be mostly fine. Spain is a tad like the usa and you could loose your stuff to the cops there. Why is the street dying .I havent noticed . A pitch may die, a city prehaps, but there will always be somewhere.
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2007-04-26 06:06, mandrake01 wrote:
Bill, I think you're trying to "black and white" the situation a bit.

It's not a question of "$120 tables" vs "cardboard boxes." In between those two extremes are a vast range of opportunities for performing surfaces.

The "waiter's stand" with top is hardly a cardboard box, but it serves the purpose for those who choose to use it.

My own answer (on those sadly infrequent times I manage to perform) is a plastic/metal thing I found at Wal*Mart. It's marketed at $20, but the one I bought was marked down to $5! (The only trouble I have with it is it's so useful around the house I have to search around to find it!) At 28" high, it's probably too short for most of you, but it seems to suit <me> fine.

Your table is a fine piece of craftmanship and you have a right to be proud of it and of your work on it. But it's simply not a question of "you're using <my> standards or you have cardboard boxes on a trash barrel."


No, I'm not. Pokie-Poke was the one who brought up the cardboard boxes, not me.

My experience (and that of others that work the street around here) is that the cops will tell you to move along first. If you don't move along, then they bust you. They will bust you if they have a complaint from a shop owner whose entry your tip is blocking. But if you are not aware of where your audience is, you aren't an experienced performer.

Usually, when the folks I know of who have gotten busted around here have been busted, it was after they quit performing, and they went into a bar and got smashed. If you look scruffy and you get smashed in a bar, you will end up in the hoosegow, especially if it's an election year.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Max T. Oz
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Of the many many years I've performed on the street,( and this includes Europe, Australia and Canada) my number one problem has never been the police. As a matter of fact, other performers have given me far more aggravation. I perform the monte and shells and have had the police watch many times. It may be different in the USA though, as I have not busked there.

As for tables, there's 2 things to consider. One it's gotta be practical. Light, rugged, portable, and functional. Second it's must look decent.
There's a quote by a performer in Patricia Campbells' book 'Passing the Hat' that goes something like this: "Look like a pro, make money like a pro. Look like a bum, make money like a bum."

Max
Bill Palmer
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Max:

You are absolutely right. Harry Anderson used to do three card monte and the shell game on the Drag in Austin. He never had any trouble with the police. He would start off his routine by explaining what it was, and he would emphasize that he WAS NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANYONE TO BET. Sometimes, he would call a police officer over to watch him. After the routine was over, he would go into his hat pass. One of the lines he used was something like this "Remember, the police officer here made sure that I didn't take any of your money. I could have gotten all of it. So why don't you give me a little of what I could have taken from you?"

Pokie-Poke:

Have YOU ever been arrested and had your props confiscated?

If so, were you asked to move along first?

If so, did you tell them that you had a right to be there?

Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
TheAmbitiousCard
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How many of you use a Eureka base or a Viking base?
They are priced similarly and I'm wondering what the differeneces are.
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Bill Palmer
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I have used a Viking base. I don't use Eureka bases, because they are not really as sturdy as some of the others. My main complaint about single column bases is that they are not as stable as a good trestle table. If you use a flange, the screws that hold the flange in place can loosen. If you use a threaded insert, these can loosen if the top is not a good hardwood.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Pokie-Poke
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This thread was meant to be about the pros/cons of building your own table, and I am sorry I tossed gas on this fire as it is no longer fun.
1, no I have never bin arrested, but some one I know was. He has bin performing in the same spot for better than 20 yrs. long before all this permit garbage. He had a legal permit at the time and showed it to the cops. the cops said it was fake and brought him in. the next day the judge thew it out as it was a good permit but it took a month to get his stuff back.
I have bin asked to move along, told to move along, threatened and harassed, but that is it. most police are cool, some are not.

When I said the street was dyeing, I was not referring to busker fairs ren fairs ect. I meant that there are less places that you can just set up and perform as a busker. It is evolving like all things do. Mandrake mentioned his problems with his local permit. and that is part of the evolution.
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