|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] | ||||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Well I'm Dad Steven's and I want my 10%.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
You must be at least 150 years old Tommy. Keep up the moisturising. Hi Doc. Its great that you have found a way of improving the Stevens. I really love this move and practice it almost daily. And I learned it from Andrew Wimhursts 'Down Under Deals.' True, Andrew's notes do not include the square up which I worked out for myself. However, one reason why Stevens may have given Dai Vernon the method is because the cull was developed essentially for the game of Faro. By the time Stevens met Dai Vernon, the game was virtually defunct due to the notorious cheating that became associated with it. I think there is also some suggestion that Vernon and Dad Stevens 'connected' in that both were perfectionists and passionate about cards. On the other hand I guess its possible that Vernon engineered the method himself. Somehow, and it is just a gut feeling, I think Stevens really did give the method to Vernon. I think the technique can be adapted to certain types of games but it takes a great deal of dedicated practice to come anywhere close to a clean looking riffle cull. And yes, you do have to 'burn' the cards. But then so do players riffling on the square. Personally, I would love to see the results of Doc's and EMVT's work on video.
Regards, Paul H |
|||||||||
Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Here is a combination cull and stack:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=......ed+cards http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=......ed+cards Both are similar but use sleightly different techniques. Enjoy !
Long Island,
New York |
|||||||||
Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
As a PS to my above post, the Stevens Cull uses a different technique to the Stevens Control. For those curious about the Stevens Control, you can find a description on page 55 of the second book of Vernon's 'Inner Secrets of Card Magic' under 'To bring a card to the top'. It is not however, credited to Stevens.
Regards, Paul H |
|||||||||
Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I'll let the viewer decide if the Google video URLs above employed a "Steven's style" control to block off cards during the shuffling proceedure
Shhhh ! I'ts fun to keep some people wondering
Long Island,
New York |
|||||||||
Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi Jeff,
This method of culling and stacking must rank as one of the most deceptive methods available especially if the cards are subtly marked 'on the fly'. It can be even quicker if you are able to set up a slug on the pick up. Good stuff. Regards, Paul H |
|||||||||
Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I'm glad you enjoyed the clips !
That is another advantage of using marked cards...you can pre-stack a slug during the pickup WITHOUT looking at the faces of cards. Using either Juice or Luminous allows for large marks....I personally can no longer use Wild or leslie marked cards because I would have to put on reading glasses for the shuffle. Of course, you can duplicate the same effect without marked cards....But, I like the idea of eliminating the glimpsing of cards by using marks.
Long Island,
New York |
|||||||||
Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-02-14 18:36, Unknown419 wrote: Sure I'd be more than happy to take a look at it...
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
|
|||||||||
Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
An additional thought on the Vernon, Stevens encounter. Doc asks why a hustler of Stevens skill and experience would give up his secrets to a young dilitante like Vernon? Well, one reason may have been Stevens age. At 70 years and being a self made man having wisely invested his gambling winnings I think it would have mellowed him. He was no longer a hungry hustler, cheating the waiters at his club for sport, and he may have felt like passing on his secrets to this ernest younger man. After all, his name has remained in the magical history books and in the patter of numerous gambling demo's although I doubt he would have bargained for it.
Regards, Paul H |
|||||||||
Jeremy Brown Regular user 160 Posts |
Look someone took the time to actually write up the dialog that was said in that video.
Posted: Jun 3, 2004 4:39pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For anyone who hasn't seen it, here's a quick transcript of Dai Vernon and company talking about Dad Stevens on Vol.8 of the Revelations tapes: Vernon: "You could write a whole book on nothing but Riffle shuffling, on block transfers as Marlo named them. Stevens never talked about a block transfer..." Freeman: "He was the one who initially gave you the idea..." Vernon: "Oh, yes, yes, he was the one... I couldn't detect anything he did. But he started us thinking about things like that. Everybody in magic's heard about 'Stevens can run-up and Stevens' control'..." Ammar: "Dad Stevens." Vernon: "... and all that kind of thing. He was a fellow who made a lot of money, bought a $250,000 home [...] in Illinois, on the outer side of Chicago. He made a fortune gambling. They used to call him 'The Mysterious Kid'. The only time I ever cried watching a magician, tears came to my eyes when I saw him work. I was in my late 20s at that time - I thought if a fella went to Alcatraz or Sing Sing Prison with a pack of cards and they told him that at the end of twenty years they'd let him out or he was going to be condemned to death [unless] he learned to do certain things he might have accomplished something like that..." Ouellet: "He was that perfect?" Vernon: "Oh, PERFECT! Tears came to my eyes 'cause I knew enough about cards to know... 'cause he'd take an ordinary pack of cards, let you shuffle [Vernon grabs the deck], he'd let you shuffle the pack and he'd say: 'Now Vernon I'll show you something you've never seen before [Vernon's Riffle shuffling by now],' and he'd just give the... and without any hesitation whatsoever [he'd] get three-of-a-kind on top, I mean NO hesitation, none whatsoever. None of this kind of thing [mimics a clumsy Riffle shuffle, sighting cards as they fall], none of this business... He'd just take the cards and he was talking, 'You know some people...,' and he'd shuffle like that and he'd say, 'Cut the cards,' and he could hop the cut beautifully on a pick up, beautiful... anyway, and then he'd have three-of-a-kind. And I stupidly said to him, 'Is it possible to get four?' He got sore, he said, 'Four! Who the hell wants four!? Three-of-a-kind, if you can't win with those you should give up playing cards. Who wants four? You'll get thrown out on your ear if you deal yourself four-of-a-kind.' He didn't care about a trick, all he wanted to do was have three-of-a-kind playing Poker." |
|||||||||
Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi Jeramy,
If I'm not mistaken, it was contained in a post by Neomagic. I must say I am somewhat sceptical of the description based on Vernon's understanding of the mechanics. Stevens was reportedly about 70 years old and can hardly have had eagle eyesight. When you have the likes of Steve Forte and R Paul Wilson saying stuff like the move cannot be performed eithout some slowing or burning the deck with bulging eyes even after twenty years of practice, it makes you wonder does it not. Either Vernon was exagerating or Doc really is onto something. Regards, Paul H |
|||||||||
Jeremy Brown Regular user 160 Posts |
If I know Doc at all I believe he really has a talent for this sort of thing.
Jeremy |
|||||||||
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts |
Paul my brother in law was born in 1919 and he still owns a crap/card house. He says he has never in his life picked up 2 rocks and got paid for it, in other words he been a hustler all his life. So he has to be about 87 and he can still switch the craps faster than I can. so vernon might have been able 2 do it. Also as for as some of these casino protection experts go, I have a friend who went to elementary school with me and we also were in prison together but he is squarer than a pool table and twice as green. I gave him some game one time and a hustler friend of mine asked me he said "Man why did you give that square a## dude that game? He said all he is gonna do is go show it to all his square a## friends. And I have another square friend of mine who I gave some game and he did the same thing, he went and showed all his square a## friends. So I am trying to prove 2 points here, 1. Never give game to a lame. 2. These casino protection dudes were lames who somebody gave them the game, but instead of them hustling like they were suppose to they went to their square friends(the casinos) and pulled those squares coats. The game is in trouble, we have hustlers here who could have taken the casinos good but somebody gave the game to a lame and being the lame he is he took the game to his square friends and pulled their coat.
I am just trying to school my fellow hustlers to never give game to a lame. |
|||||||||
TheCount New user 49 Posts |
Keep in mind, someone like Forte doesn't just get information from hustlers, he has developed some methods, and probably discovers others. One major feature in casinos is the ability to keep track of the odds and when someone is beating the odds consistently they will watch the individual more closely and attempt to determine how they are doing it. Forte undoubtedly benefits a lot from procedures like this.
There are also a lot of people who used to cheat casinos who now work for casinos in the protection industry. If you're going to retire from cheating anyway, why not make a few extra dollars selling what you know to people who are willing to pay for it? I have no idea how much he makes, but it wouldn't surprise me if Forte made more working for the casinos than against them. Why hustle? If it's just for the money, why not eliminate the risk and get the money by hiring yourself out in protection as opposed to cheating it from them? |
|||||||||
Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi Memph,
Steve Forte did organise and orchestrate scams against Casino's exploiting precedural loop holes. As I understand it, he was described as an superb artist at this kind of hustle. He also played in crooked card rooms in the 1970's. His unusual history is precisely why the Casino's refused to back the shuffling machine he invented forcing him to sell the rights. I guess its more a case of the poacher becoming the gamekeeper and some of the very best gamekeepers started out as poachers. Regards, Paul H |
|||||||||
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts |
The count I can tell you why hustle! Ok many guys here I feel like are my friends. Lots of guys here like to cheat at cards, dice etc. Now if I am a fellow dice/card mechanic and I go to the federal goverment and tell them I want to be a coat tail puller for them against card/dice/3cm/3sg workers cant you see where I am going with this? How could I ever love the game or you guys and I go to somebody who is trying to stamp you guys out. Anybody who does that is no more than a self centered lame! How am I going to wipe it out for everybody else? I have plenty of game but there is no way that I would sell out to the casino, no way! How can any player ruin it for every other player in the world!!! What gives you the right or the adasity???
|
|||||||||
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Quit whining.
|
|||||||||
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts |
Well I c all lames stick together! As a preacher once said if you cant say amen say ouch! I c I stepped on someones toes!
|
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I have said before that I wouldn't tell Forte the time. But he is the best in world at what he does.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts |
Tommy if you came up with a new move that would make millions you know don't tell these guys they would run back and tell the casino! They aren't on the side of the players they on the side of the tricks! And birds of a feather flock together huh mr z, silverking, iamslow?
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » The Steven's Cull Or Doc's Cull - Doc/Steven's Cull » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |