|
|
|
|||
| Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts 
|
Am I the only who has noticed that few 3CM routines deal with what to do when the spectator's chooses the money card?
On the street, the hustler has his crew to back him up. Magicians seem to either shrug and say "oh well! caught me!" or not let a spectator play and just demonstrate the moves. And don't even get me started on the mexican turnover. Why has this problem not been discussed in greater depth? |
|||||||||
|
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts
|
Well nick there r many ways I am going to give you one. If a vic picks the right card on me and says he is betting a hundred I am going to tell the vic"no I tell you what. this is my last one and I am about to quit bet $500. I am going to scare that trick away surely! This is called bluffing the vic!
|
|||||||||
|
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts
|
That is a great technique for the real world but in a magic show, it wouldn't fly.
You don't want to scare the trick away, you want them to play and lose. Or play and be amazed! |
|||||||||
Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts
|
Nicholas, that's why it's so hard to "go long" with the 3-CM.
Obviously they shouldn't be picking the money card too often. But if they just get it once you can always throw out a line like "Very good, you've been watching closely, now it's time to play for real money." For magic I don't see why you can't use the Mexi T/O or a flip foward or similar. But I do agree it should not be overused. Or used at all if it's not necessary. The big problem as I see it is if you go too long they will eventually either snap to the hype, or just start guessing, in which case they a bound to hit a couple.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
|
|||||||||
|
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts
|
Nicholas I have a monte that would fool any 3cm player in the world.
|
|||||||||
|
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts
|
Congratulations memph33777. Unfortunately, that doesn't really help the conversation does it?
Vandy - the mexican turnover as a 'solve' for a correct choice will only fly some of the time. I used to have it as my 'out' when performing and I would be called on it often enough to make it not practical. It is not that people see the move occur, it is just that, at this point in the game, they are burning the cards so closely that the mexican turnover becomes suspect. Also, if it were a regular routine, they would be happy to let it go. "Something happened there but I don't really know what but I'm enjoy the show so who cares" as opposed to "I'm sure the ace is there and SOMETHING JUST HAPPENED! HE CHEATED ME! MY PRIDE IS AT STAKE! ARGHHHH!" I have moved the MT to another part of the routine and I am yet to be caught. The problem is not the MT itself, but it's use as an out. Mark Lewis has a GREAT solution for magicians which can be found at the Scoundrel's Forum. |
|||||||||
|
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts
|
Well nicholas I have made thousands on the street but I have never done a magical act in my life so you're right I can't help you. lol
|
|||||||||
scaress Veteran user salt lake city 337 Posts
|
In my routine, I try to control which card the spectator believes is the money card. you really don't want him to guess, then you're running the risk of sometimes he gets it right.
I can't think of a time in performance when you wouldn't use a routine. if you're hustling on the street and the mark picks the right card then just hit him with a tire iron and take his wallet. |
|||||||||
|
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts
|
When I create a routine, I try and make each phase build on the lesson from the one before. This is different from simply building in difficulty.
For example, it the first phase, the spectator picks the wrong card. In the second phase, you 'expose' the move so that the audience knows what to look for. (the fake move is, of course, a red herring) In the third phase, you remove one of the indifferent cards and just use two. Each time, the spectator has something to think about other then just watching the queen. |
|||||||||
|
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
|
Yell "cop!' and run.
|
|||||||||
|
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts
|
I have a move that I use if a vic guesses the right card but I don't know how to describe it. It bothers me that some people think that street hustlers r armed robbers etc.
|
|||||||||
|
walking_liberty Elite user 458 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-02-21 21:48, scaress wrote: Like I always say...Anyone can rob somebody. It takes skill to rob somebody and make them think it was their fault. |
|||||||||
|
Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-02-21 23:15, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote: Is this the basic routine where you are having trouble with people picking the money card?
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
|
|||||||||
|
memph33777 Loyal user 257 Posts
|
Robbing is taking by force. players get their money by choice not force.
|
|||||||||
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts
|
Check out Ortiz' handling in At The Card Table. The spectator doesn't pick a card until the very last throw. And by then the psychology is super strong to pick the other 2. Or at least it is in my handling. I've been modifying his for years, and don't fully remember.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
|||||||||
|
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-02-22 09:21, Vandy Grift wrote: It is not so much trouble I am having with any particular routine but the fact that if you structure a routine around the audience being able to choose where they think the ace is, you will eventually come across people who pick the correct card because a) they know the hype b) the try and deconstruct the theatrical construct of the routine c) they guess wildly. I get the impression that few people do a "spectator plays the game" type routine of a regular basis. I perform 3CM up to 20-30 times a week and so these types of people start to come out. What I am interested in doing is looking at solutions for this situation in the context of a MAGIC (not hustling) routine. |
|||||||||
|
Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts
|
That's exactly what I thought Nicholas. It seems to me that you are trying to play the game as close as possible to the street version, but within the confines of a magic routine. That's hard to do for the three reasons you mentioned above.
I think you are right on when you say that "few people do a "spectator plays the game". That's because it so unpredictable. You never know what the spec may do when given a free choice of three cards. You can't make them follow your script. That's why monte throwers work with confederates and why most magical routines severly limit how many times the spec chooses, when they choose, or if spec gets a choice at all. Even Whit Haydn has spoken about the limits of 3-CM in magic. There only so much you can do with it. If you give the specs a real choice and they guess correctly, There really are only a couple of options; Switch the card or show the card and play it off.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
|
|||||||||
|
PMVIVA Elite user Argentina 460 Posts
|
Have you ever tought about making a 3CM routine in a storyline way????
I do a 3CM routine pretty much like Vernon Does it as it is described in Dai Vernon Revelations Book (The Dai Vernon Annotated Erdnase). I start telling them a story (made up) about some time in the past when I was in a magical convention and on my way back home I came across this "hustler" that had a little table in the street and three and only three cards, two jokers and the money card. Then as the story goes on I tell that at that time I was aware of all card techniques and ways a man can cheat with cards so I gave a try and approached that hustler. I put the spectator as the main character of the story so that the spectator feels involved in the routine but yet as it is a story about previous events the spectator really does not make any choice, beecouse of the story I tell. I make almost all phases in Dai Vernon's routine and I end up with only two cards left to choose from (This part of the routine I have the crimped card, I left it the table, remove an indiferent card, and show the other joker mix the two cards let the spectator choose one, they will choose the crimped card but when I turn it up its a joker, the queen is the one that I left away). I hope you can understand my point if noy I will try to clarify. Best regards Pablo
If you have an apple and I have an apple, when we exchange them we both have an apple. If I have an idea and you haven an idea, when we exchange them we both have two ideas.
Supporting the open source community. |
|||||||||
|
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-02-23 11:09, Vandy Grift wrote: I'm not sure I agree. I have one or two moves, bits of business that I do, that I use to great affect in my routine. For example, Mark Lewis' bit involves picking up the winning card and without showing it, saying "yes you're right!" then picking up the other two cards (one in hype position) "these are the losers!" and then throwing one and hyping the other. He then says "which means this must be the winner! Of course, when he turns it over, it is also a losing card! I'm looking to make my 3CM a type of 'choose your own adventure' where the audience member is encourage through sleight of hand and pyschology to pick the wrong card but, if they DO pick the wrong card, I have an aresenal of moves to continue. |
|||||||||
|
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts
|
That stopped the discussion in it's tracks!
|
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » The fatal flaw of the 3CM (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
Posted: Feb 19, 2007 06:18 am 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.02 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|