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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » World's First and Largest Wiki-Encyclopedia for the Magical Arts! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-02-22 22:32, Scott Xavier wrote:

And if it does get that huge as to where exposure is a problem, than I will hire moderators. I am eating the cost of it already. In 4 days it has sucked up 124 megabytes of bandwidth, which I pay for. Money isn't an option when it comes to education and the advancement of ones art...



Scott,

Since your site is an offshoot of Wikipedia don't you have to follow Wiki standards and abide by their rules? I've been a Wikipedian for a while now and they are very strick in their polocies. One of them is that they endorse the exposure of magic as it is " knowledge".

Wikipedians take their posts pretty seriously and if someone posts an exposure and you remove it Wikipedia may consider you removing it to be vandalism. Eventually you may have your ISP blocked from accessing Wikipedia.

My question is ... can you set your own rules here or do you have to abide by Wikipedias????? If you have to abide by Wikipedias rules then you are creating a monster here.

Best,

Tim
BSutter
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Quote:
On 2007-02-22 22:32, Scott Xavier wrote:
KNOWLEDGE is free.


I do not agree, count me out. If an explination is needed, ask an Engineer.

Regards,
Bill Sutter
The Drake
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I just had a look at the site and so far Wikipedia rules regards any of the photos are being ignored and if Wikipedia has any control all the photos on the site will be deleted for not adhereing to fair use terms or copywright rules.

Best,

Tim
The Drake
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This just keeps getting weirder. Scotts own page .( considered a vanity page by Wikipedia standards) is locked so that it cannot be edited. You can edit Blaines page, Copperfield..etc but not Scotts page.

When Scott says he is not worried about exposures or vandalism..... that safe feeling does not seem to appy to his page?????????

Scott... that is not a slam at you. I was going to edit your page into proper Wikipedia standards so it could be an example to others on proper posting. However such corrections were not possible as you have locked out any other " free expression of knowledge" . Why does that free expression apply to others pages but not yours?

Best,

Tim
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2007-02-22 22:32, Scott Xavier wrote:
KNOWLEDGE is free. There will never be a membership to view or read the information, sorry for any confusion....


As far as magic knowledge goes...

You are free to put any SPECIFIC KNOWLEDGE THAT IS UNIQUELY YOUR OWN online

BUT I do not grant you the right to put any of my IP or work (or any derivative works from my IP) online.

That's a general statement folks.

If you can't protect the secrets you have been entrusted with so far, don't expect to get any new ones any time soon.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Micheal Leath
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Jonathan, I completely agree with you on this one.

Micheal Leath
Andy the cardician
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Sorry Scott,

I also have to disagree strongly - some knowledge is protected and is owned by someone. If you plan not to respect that, your project is bound to fail. This is not flaming on you, but an honest feedback.

How would you feel if someone just hi-jacks your page?

Andy
Cards never lie
Scott Xavier
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"When Scott says he is not worried about exposures or vandalism..... that safe feeling does not seem to appy to his page?????????"

--Why put high risk pages in jeopardy? Being my page I knew it would fall into question sooner opr later theres some stuff Im not worried about, like my page. So I locked it.

Why alter my page into wikipedia format? Its not WIKIPEDIA!

As for wiki, no. Since I have altered the wiki code it is now mine. I cant charge for the new code, but it is mine. I do not follow wikipedias stances on exposure. When wikipedia owns my site or proprietory software, then they can do what THEY want. Until then its mine.

Andy, you are correct. Some knowledge is protected. WHAT protected knowledge are you refering to? Perhaps you could tell me what knowledge is being stolen and I will edit it, or are you just being flaming?

AND WIKIPEDIA HAS NO CONROL! They in NO way are involved with this site! It is not their rules at one time I used their media engine, but even that has been altered at least 30%... As for the pics, they are from friend s and friends sites. So I do not see how it is an issue. I have even had penn and teller issue me the right to use a bio and pics. TRUST me with a project this big you have to be safe!

So far we have had 8,000 page views in 4 days. People like it and are using it.
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-02-23 19:03, Andy the cardician wrote:
Sorry Scott,

I also have to disagree strongly - some knowledge is protected and is owned by someone. If you plan not to respect that, your project is bound to fail. This is not flaming on you, but an honest feedback.

How would you feel if someone just hi-jacks your page?

Andy



I think Scott was really only trying to say... " there is no fee to sign up to his wiki page". I don't think that he was endorsing exposing or using others ideas. I'm sure he has good intentions with his site but doesn't really understand what a huge undertaking it is and just how fast it can get out of control. A good look over his new wiki page shows that he is at this point not very experienced with Wiki standards. It is loaded with errors, wikipedia no-nos and ticking time bombs that will explode into huge problems.

I made many mistakes when I first started editing Wikipedia pages but had those who knew what they were doing crack down on me and correct those mistakes. That is how I learned. I would suggest Scott do the same and learn the ropes in Wikipedia before becoming the person in charge of his own wikipedia.

Best,

Tim
Scott Xavier
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1. THIS IS NOT A WIKIPEDIA SITE!
2. this is a Scott Xavier production...
3. Image use is covered under http://www.magicsanctum.com/wiki/index.p......age_Laws
4. No exposure or stealing of ideas that the general community holds as wrong will be tolerated.
5. STANDARDS? This is a FREE repository for ALL magicians to express themselves and their work. create a bio about themselves and maybe add a new article to the library.
6. It is built on a wiki engine that has been changed, wikipedia is a company that has NOTHING to do with my site. The engine it is built on is from the same people who do wikipedia, but the code became different when I altered the wiki engine by at least 30%...

Now can we go post a bio about ourselves and save me the hour of doing it myself?
Andy the cardician
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Tim,

fair point . . I tried to formulate my words such that it remains factual, as we do not need a war of words. Guess, I was not succesful . . .

I still think that it can be a great resource, but there needs to be a strong management of contents - copy right infringements, exposure etc have to be under control. There is enough exposure out there, so we should not encourage it or - even worse - provide a platform for it.

Andy
Cards never lie
Scott Xavier
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Tried to edit this but couldn't so here it is:

I'm sure I'll make mistakes, but Im willing to accept them and stand behind my name in this business. Without the Café I would never have gotten the chance to be a mentalist and tour the country and create products. This is my attempt at creating a better internet for MY ART. This is an homage to the Café and all those resources that helped me be me. I now make 100% of my living off of magic and mentalism and it's due to the knowledge here at the Café. Hopefully the new site will inspire some new generations. If I do something wrong tell me and I will attempt to change it.

Now can we go post a bio about ourselves and save me the hour of doing it myself?

http://www.magicsanctum.com and drzodiac(at)gmail.com to email me if you want some change on the site..
Just give me a chance and let me know whats wrong, don't make ASsumptions

AND IF you want CHANGE then sign up and email me, I need more moderators! THIS IS YOUR page!
The Drake
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Scott...here is just one of the problems you are going to have.

You have copied and pasted info from Wikipedia. In that text there are mulitple links to other wikipedia pages.

Example.... One of the pages you copied from Wikipedia says ....Harry Houdini was born in Budapest. You have the word Budapest linked to a non existant page. ( in Wikipedia it really links to a page ) When you click on that link in your site you are told..." this page does not exist...create one" ... and somebody will. Now you will have a page on Budapest eating up bandwidth and eventually spawning other nonmagic pages to be created.

Eventually you'll have Wikipedia 2. LOL

Like I said..... its gonna be a monster to control.

Best,

Tim
Scott Xavier
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I have removed the links from other pages. I have to teach people how to copy and paste properly I guess. if you notice the new pages don't have that.
Decomposed
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Has anyone viewed any of the videos on the pages?
Mark Fifield
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I agree with you tim its going to be a beast to control

and question doesn't copy and pasteing = Plagiarism
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-03-16 21:20, Mark Fifield wrote:
I agree with you tim its going to be a beast to control
and question doesn't copy and pasteing = Plagiarism


I think Wikipedia allows you to copy and paste their content. They will NOT accept any plagiarism but they consider Wikipedia to be free information so having it appear on the Magic Sanctum is ok.

Best,

Tim
Mark Fifield
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Barrie, On
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Thanks I didn't know that I was just wondering must be the boy scout in me lol
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