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Chance
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That being said David, what's your answer to the original post in the thread? Would you care to take on a record challenge based on those criteria and rules?
DavidEscapes
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I have always taken any worthwhile challenge. I think most escape artists feel the same way.
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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Stuart Burrell
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It is a funny thing but I once heard Craig Breedlove say that "It lets you down 'cause all of a sudden you have something to loose."

November 3rd 2007 will be the 5th Anniversary of when I set the record for Most Handcuff Escapes in one hour.

It remains one of the best things I have ever done.

I also never thought I would still be holding the record after so long. I really did not.

I have PM'd Chance with regard to this, after all the talk about what should be considered the right cuff to use, as I felt it would be a waste to throw a good record out. Just to clear things, not that anyone here has voiced any real doubts, the handcuffs used in my Guinness attempt were the real deal.

For those that are looking to do something different at Cannon's this year, that record is something and it is different.

To put it another way, someone, anyone, please let me be an ex record holder. Let me lose this one.
Chance
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David, thanks for calling my challenge idea worthwhile.

Stuart, what was the model cuff used in your record? And would you mind telling how you were searched and by whom that day?

For the record (to anyone who wonders) my reason for chosing the cuffs and leg irons mentioned previously, is because they have the specially shaped bow which tightens much closer to the limb, lessening the ability of twisting the wrists. Other than that they are standard double locking (hinged) Smith & Wesson models.
DavidEscapes
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Quote:
On 2007-03-05 18:06, Chance wrote:
David, thanks for calling my challenge idea worthwhile.


Actually, I didn't say that. I simply said I would take on any worthwhile challenge, I haven't decided whether I actually think yours is worthwhile.

On Balance, while it would obviously be difficult to get out of the restraint ideas you have. I don't really see the entertainment value. Your rules certainly leave plenty of leverage for a successful escape though. Just not necessarily an exciting one.

To be honest, from a purely difficulty point of view. I would prefer to face any one of those challenges that Stuart Burrells handcuff record, which doesn't sound like fun at all!
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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Chance
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The grammar of your last 2 letters suggested exactly that. But you are certainly able to clarify as you see fit.

Nothing about this thread has anything to do with entertainment value. Excitment was never the point. It is about world record challenges only. But for some reason you and Harry keep coming back to entertainment values. As if the 2 can never be separate.

We all know how to effect escapes. That was never the point either. It's not about holding someone indefinitely, or inflicting pain.

The point of this thread is to draw a clear and concise contrast to the ongoing record challenges we have all read about. The so-called 6-second SJ releases, etc. My view is that there is no such thing with a jacket that has been expertly applied. Ditto for the super fast handcuff releases.

Taking it to the next level, I just thought why not design a structured escape scenario that not only completely eliminates these bogus results, but can be easily replicated by any challenge authority anywhere in the world as well.

Only when everyone is playing by EXACTLY the same rules, facing EXACTLY the same levels of difficulty no matter who is offering the challenge, only then will the stigma of fakery and manipulation go away.

(David has accused me of singleing him out elsewhere in this thread, but I have not. Anything written here, unless specified directly, is always written generally. Looking at the stats this thread seems to be popular. I wish more readers would become writers.)
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Just to clarify. The offical world record for the SJ escape is 50 seconds, I don't know where you are getting these 6 second record claims from?
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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Chance
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I'm only repeating what was said earlier in this same thread....
DavidEscapes
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Well, I think checking on a few facts would be useful. Sure, people have gotten out of straitjackets etc in incredibly fast times. But for the Guinness records the times are not so unbelieveable. And its records we are talking about, not regular stage escapes.
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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Please note - This post was previously deleted, and has been reposted with the kind permission of Dave Scribner.

************************************************************************

"We are escape artists Chance, entertainment is always going to be the focus. As Ken said, escapology is a performence art. They can't be made seperate.

No rule you could put in place EVER could make it exactly the same for everyone. They can only narrow the playing field a little bit. that's all. Guinness records always use the same rules, and those rules are stringent. Just as you suggest. If the Guinness rules were used for all SJ escapes for instance there would not be any 6 second SJ releases, ever, anywhere. I took a lot of care when I put them together to stop exactly that! Guinness DO NOT HAVE a 6 second SJ record, exactly because they carefully follow proper rules. Their record is 50 seconds, because of good rules being used and followed.

None of the SJ records talked about here in the past few months have been accepted by Guinness to the best of my knowledge.

Their handcuff rules too are quite specific, yes, they make the escape relativly easy for a good EA, but it is EQUALLY relativly easy for anyone! All fair and above board. Your additional ideas simple crate a different handcuff record which is equally relativly hard. that's all. It doesn't actually change a thing. I broke the handcuff record using these rules in a time of 4.25 seconds. Yes, that's way to fast, but the rules allowed me, and anyone else who wanted to have a go a chance to be that fast, while still using proper legit equipment. Your rules just mean the escapes are not going to be as fast. They don't do a single thing to make them more fair!

So, I will say it again. There are record organisations who are not bothering to create proper rules, some of their records are likely to be 100% bogus, though I am sure most are not even for them. The organisations may be useless, but the people breaking the records are decent enough to want to do a proper job even if they don't actually need to, to get the certificate. Guinness, at least is sticking to the rules, and enforcing them. In my opinion Guinness are currently the only organisation officiating records right now that I would give any credence to, or have anything to do with.
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Tony Chapparo
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I don't see the point in "escape records" myself, except for what was said above about using them to get more gigs.

I am in the game to hopefully entertain lay people.

I agree with the above post and Kens statement:

Escapology is a "Performance Art" Why turn it into an Olympic Trial?

I would imagine if there were enough rules,test conditions and the right equipment ALL of us would be up the creek w/o a pick.
Tony Chapparo
Roslyn
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The only thing I don't like about the Guinness handcuff records is that they state using police handcuffs.

This is dependent on which country you happen to be in at the time.

In the US you'll probably get chain link S&W 100s (not too difficult), but here in the UK you'll get Hiatts Speedcuffs that are a little more difficult since they don't have the chain.

To have a set cuff, like with the sj records, would be better than just saying "use police cuffs" I think.

I'm still confused by the whole searching thing though.

Are you saying you can't use tools?

Or do you just have to be better at hiding them than the person doing the searching is at finding them?

I'm part of the "pick it in the open" brigade anyway, so I'm confused as to why you'd hide the tools used. Especially as the cuff escape is essentially a "fastest lock picking" type of thing anyway. And you wouldn't have a locksmith hide their tools.
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DavidEscapes
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Hi Ros

You are right about the Guinness handcuff thing. I went through ages of talks with them to try and get that changed. Which resulted in the below.

You CAN use chain link SW's etc in any country. The rules now state that they have to be police cuffs in use. Not just police cuffs in use in the country where the attpemt is taking place. So, as long as they are provided and checked etc as per the rules the SW's are fine here, or anywhere.

The Guinness cuffs provision and checking rules are very good by the way. Provided by independant experts, serial numbers checked before and after every escape, EA has no prior contact with cuffs etc.
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Stuart Burrell
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In reply to Chance, the Handcuffs used were Smith and Wesson type 100's from the collection of Chris Gower. The Handcuff serial numbers were 708862 and 748854. The package they came in was opened on the day and I had no prior contact to them. The handcuffs were examined by the audience and by a Prison Officer who confirmed that they were in working order.

Just to add to what David and Ross were discussing, the original rules were to just use Smith and Wesson type 100's but no specific method of escape was detailed to prevent the disclosure of method. After all, anyone can apply to be a record breaker. This changed when Guinness felt they wanted to make the record as open as possible.

There is a write up on the record in the 2006 Handcuff Mannual covering the physical aspect of it.

For those that have an interest, please use the following link http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/memb......ker.aspx

Thanks for your time.
Roslyn
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Cheers for clearing up the cuff thing.
I get it now Smile
So, does anyone have a list of the current (as accepted by Guinness) records?
Take it easy,
Ros
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Roslyn
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Sorry, another question.

Do they have to belong to a police officer, or just be in use?

For example, if I were to get a set of S&Ws direct from a handcuff suppliers would that count? Or would they have to belong to a police officer?

Thanks again,

Ros
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Stuart Burrell
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Hi Ross, I've PM'd you on the second point.

From memory and I am happy to be corrected on this one. These are the GUINNESS records, not RHR. I have posted the person I think currently holds them but please don't take my word for it, ask Guinness as they have stopped writing to the record holders to tell them they no longer hold the record and don't have them all on the website to save bandwidth.

For handcuffs (official record names)

The number of police officers from whose handcuffs an individual has escaped. (Nick Janson)

The fastest time to escape from a single pair of police handcuffs (Matt The Knife)

The most police handcuffs escaped from in an hour. (Stuart Burrell)

The most police handcuffs escaped from in 24 hours (Vacant, created by SJB)

The fastest escape from a pair of police handcuffs underwater (Matt The Knife)

***

For Straitjackets (these are not official names for the records)

Fastest StraitJacket Escape (David Straitjacket but put me right if I'm wrong)

Most escapes from a Straitjacket in 8 hours (James Peters)

Fastest Underwater Escape from a Straitjacket

Fastest Escape from a Straitjacket whilst on stilts (David Straitjacket, again I could be wrong)

***

Fastest Escape from Manacles (King Stardog)

***

Fastest Escape from chains underwater (Weasel Dandaw)

Again these are just from memory so please correct if wrong.

Thanks

Stu
Joe Marotta
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Hi Stu and Xtreem;

I received the video that Xtreem sent of Stu setting the current Guinness World Record for most police handcuffs escaped in one hour. Thank you both. Stu, that was incredible. You are a machine! I watched the entire tape and got a kick out of your humor and your conversations during the entire escape. You did a really great job Stu.

I've decided to "attempt" to beat your record this summer. GWR has accepted my request and I've started my training. You've set the record so high that I'm not sure that I can beat it Stu, but I'll give it my best shot.

For the local people in southern California, I'll let you know the exact date and time in case you want to attend. Tentative date is April 28th but I'm waiting on confirmation on the venue. I'll keep you posted.

Joe
DavidEscapes
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Hi Ros

Just add to your list. Ben Bradshaw has the fastest underwater SJ I think, and I have the fastest suspended SJ & chains while suspended.

Good luck with the attempt Joe Smile

Take care

David
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Stuart Burrell
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Good luck Joe and thank you for the kind words. I am glad the humour travelled.

Gods Speed on the 28th of April and I am sure you will set a new record as the better man always wins.

Stu
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