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MisterE21 Elite user Salt Lake City, UT 426 Posts |
Okay, preface this with the simple fact that I do not yet table-hop. I am extremely self-critical and don't think I'm NEAR that phase yet...
However, I've noticed something odd browsing through this board, and it relates to approaching a table cold. I keep reading things like "DON'T ask them if they want to see magic; this gives them the opportunity to say no!" So, I'm just curious...is table-hopping really about cramming an experience down someone's throat? That's certainly how it seems. While I can understand that management is paying the magician and, therefore, would like to see him working...I can certainly imagine they would NOT like to see him working for people who would really rather not see him... Maybe it just strikes me as odd due to my background in ::gasp:: telemarketing. ::ducks under the nearest non-hopping table:: It's common in that, um, industry to hear things like "Don't ask __________, because they might say no!!!" This usually comes up because you're selling something no one wants or needs and, therefore, you need to "trick" them into buying it. I just hate to see magic being presented along those lines....Thoughts? E
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
No it is not about cramming the experience down people's throat...
It's about psychology. People have tendencies such as.... People don't like change. People don't like to be put on the spot. People have seen BAD BAD magic. In fact, that is all 99% of people have ever seen. BAD BAD magic. People enjoy being entertained by a good performer. People will follow a leader. So when you walk up to a table you need to have an "angle" that gets around the probable response .... "NO THANKS" by promoting the last two tendencies. If you walk up in a confident way and spark some interest, you're in. If you walk up with a deck of cards in your hand and say, "Hello, I hope you're enjoying yourselves. Could I interest you in a card trick this evening", as you wipe your nose on your sleeve, you're out. These days I walk up and address the lady at the table and say... "I noticed something very interesting about you from over there and I've got to see if I'm right about this." I don't give them a chance to think. Immediately they are being dropped onto a train track, if you will, and off we go. I do a prediction. They are very amazed. Ladies, I've noticed love predictions about themselves. And we're on to the next effect. At that point I have the gentleman select a card and we're off again! The entire time, I'm just being myself. I talk like myself. I act like myself. I don't do fake laughs. I don't do fake smiles. I look them in the eye. I ask them questions. I touch them on the shoulder. I do not ask their names. I tease them a bit. We have fun. Sometimes people are still uncomfortable or truely uninterested. I pack up and leave as soon as is comfortably possible for all of us.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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RandomEffects Veteran user Boston, MA 323 Posts |
Frank makes some wonderful points. For me the most important reason that I don't do the basic intro is that I want to wow them before they know they are going to be wowed.
For example, I usually open by producing a 12" wand from a 2 inch coin purse that I find on the floor. When I find it on the floor it gets everyones attention. When I pull the wand out it blows them away. If I was to tell them a head of time that I was a magician then: A) "finding" the coin purse on the floor does not fool anyone. B) They are still impressed but not as much because they expect something to happen. I am a firm believer that your best effects need to be your opener and your closer, because those are the ones that they will remember more than any others. Not that your middle can suck but you need to hook them and leave them with a bang. By not telling them you are a magician you can add that much more to your initial effect. Mat |
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-01-14 11:50, Frank Starsini wrote: I agree with these thoughts. However, many performers using these techniques are still ramming bad magic down peoples throats, lol. In the restaurant situation,I did sometimes ask. But of course that doesn't mean the first thing I asked was if they wanted to see some magic.I asked if they were enjoying themselves,told them who I was, what I was doing and pointed out the entertainment was free courtesy of the management. In restaurants you come across people that really DO have important business to discuss, some romantic couples who do NOT want their interlude interupting and once I had some people who had just come from a funeral! And amazingly some rare people who just do not like magic at all no matter how good you are, or because of religious beliefs. Company banquet table magic is different. Paul. http://www.PH-Marketing-magic.co.uk |
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Joe M. Turner Loyal user Atlanta, Georgia 248 Posts |
Personally, I think it's rude to be off-and-running without giving the people at the table a chance to say no.
You have to adjust how you present yourself, choose your moment, and size up the table as best you can. I don't think any one opening is perfect for all situations. I prefer to let them know who I am, that I am a professional, and be charming and sincere. If they don't want to see any magic, I don't have a problem with that. JMT |
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kasper777 Regular user 144 Posts |
"I prefer to let them know who I am, that I am a professional, and be charming and sincere. If they don't want to see any magic, I don't have a problem with that." I second that Joe.
As much as some people are going to hate this, not everyone wants to see magic at the restaurant. Some people are having a business dinner and don't want to be bothered. Some people haven't seen each other in a while and would rather catch up then watch you make their signed card come to the top. If you don't give the the chance to say no, you may find yourself being embarassed not only infront of that table, but any other table that is paying attention as he stops you halfway through your red hot mama and ask you to leave. I would rather him say no, and I leave; then having him stop me halfway through. I've known people to have their thumb tips taken off of their thumb and exposed because he couldn't take a hint. For those of you afraid of rejection, have the wait staff ask the customers if they care to see you, if they say yes, you go over there and perform if they say no, you won't have to deal with that rejection. |
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IanBrodie Regular user 147 Posts |
As highlighted earlier in the thread, one dilemma you are facing is that some people will be shy and say no, or don't want to be seen to be wanting something (even though they do), or don't think they'll enjoy it (even though they would). As a paid entertainer, if you can get past this and entertain them (so they're more likely to come back) then you've done a good job. On the other hand if they really don't want to be entertained and you force it on them they're more likely not to come back.
My approach after introducing myself etc. is to say "We're going to have a little bit of magical fun together (or words to that effect) if that's OK with you?". If they really don't want any magic they can say no there and then - but for the majority it's easier to say yes, nod, smile or often treat it as a rhetorical question and just let me continue into my first effect. If found that this approach (a bit like a preemptive close in selling) pushes them a bit to agree to the magic without seeming pushy and while giving them plenty of chance to say no if they really would prefer not. Wheras a question like "Would you like to see some magic?" may get a no, or people looking round at each other - just because someone doesn't want to be seen to be asking for magic (even though they may really want some). I'm not saying it's the perfect method, but it works for me when done with a smile, etc. Another thing to look out for is when you get a no from one person when it's clear everyone else wants to see you. You need a strategy for dealing with that too. Make sure you're checking the reaction of the whole table and diplomatically handling answers (perhaps repositioning yourself nearer the folks who want the magic). Above all, I think you have to be comfortable with your approach - if you feel better starting with an effect then that may work better for you. If you're comfortable asking then do that. Do experiment - but don't keep doing something you're not comfortable with - it won't work. Ian |
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MisterE21 Elite user Salt Lake City, UT 426 Posts |
So, am I completely off base here? I suppose, never having done the work, I could be receiving an an unclear transmission...great, now I gotta get the cranial saw and adjust my inner metals...::sigh::...the life of a cyborg...I mean..um...anyway....
I suppose that, if many of the patrons ARE too shy to say yes even though they want to, then I can see being a bit pushy about it. It's confusing to me (but, again, I haven't done the work yet) because it would seem that human nature makes it more difficult to say no than to say yes. Entire (albeit crappy, shabby and stupid) companies are built around the belief that people have a hard time saying no... I think my major concern, accepting the shyness problem, is that of newcomers to the field. To be able to differentiate between the shy and the truly uninterested takes experience, as does all "cold reading" of non-verbal communication. Therefore, I shudder at the thought of some newbie (like myself, in a way) cramming his/her act down someones throat. ::shrug:: And, as Peter has pointed out time and time again, many of us have a hard time discerning between authentic, though somewhat disinterested, applause and "pity clapping." Again, this comes with experience. Anyway...I may be completely out in left field (which will REALLY tick the coach off, as I'm supposed to be benched...) E
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
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BenSchwartz Elite user Southern California 499 Posts |
I agree with Frank and Paul. I don't think that you have a very good way about approaching a table, Joe. This is vital. You are not trying to trick them into watching you. You cannot say that you are a magician because oh so many times I have heard, "Oh, are you going to pull a rabbit out of you hat?", "are you going to pull a coin out of my ear?" or "gawd please don't do a card trick".
For one, I don't even wear a hat. No, pulling a coin out is outdated, and friggin no, I'm not going to slap the cards out of your hand like uncle dirk did at the thanksgiving table. You need to do a quick opener say of 30 seconds. More than likely they will like it. But then, you give them the option to decline. Therefore, you've done your job by showing them some magic, you haven't interfered with their space by pushing it on them and everyone is happy! LOL I have done restaurants for 5 years now 4 nights a week and have quite a bit of insight on table hopping.
"The experience of astonishment is the experience of a clear, primal state of mind that they associate with a child's state of mind." ---- Paul Harris
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-01-14 14:45, Joe M. Turner wrote: I AM off and running but not too fast and I'm not in their face. I initially require no audience interaction (practically) and it's pretty low key. I (think) I'm sensitive enough of the audience (expressions and body language) to know whether they are really not up for what's going on. If they're not, I've spent only 30 seconds with them and I'm gone. I would say every 5 nites I table-hop, one person says "NO". I'm not sure how many tables that is per "NO" but it's in the hundreds, I suppose. Thoretically, Joe is correct about being rude. Maybe 1 in 500 tables might think I'm rude but I really doubt it. I also look at the other percentages such as getting to perform for those that weren't quite sure and now realize that magic is either great fun or very interesting (or both) and not some jerk in a green tux, waving his hands around to make the lady get un-sawed-in-half. I would never do it in an in-your-face, I'm not leaving until I get a tip way. Each table is a bit different and part of being an experienced table-hopper is knowing how to learn on-the-fly and react to each table confidently without coming off rude. And that could include a confident... "Well, perhaps another time! Enjoy your meal."
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
This topic has come up several times and I've offered my opinions several times. I don't think you should force yourself on people AT ALL, but a "no" can start a "chain reaction." The method I came up with overcomes both problems and has worked very well for me for over a decade. I wrote an article for my Visions column (the first year's worth are in my latest book), but since you can't read about it on Visions anymore, I'll post the article here:
Quote: “Approaching Perfection”
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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BenSchwartz Elite user Southern California 499 Posts |
Great material Scott. But what about the rest of us who don't have the luxury of the restaurant allowing us to put up tents?
"The experience of astonishment is the experience of a clear, primal state of mind that they associate with a child's state of mind." ---- Paul Harris
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
I haven't had that problem, once I explained the reason for them, and how it would keep me from disturbing those who didn't want to see the magi. However, as I said, it works for me--it may not for you.
If I wasn't allowed to have the tents (and again, none of the restaurants I've worked in over a decade have denied me them), I still believe that it is rude and presumptuos to just walk up to a table and start performing uninvited. It is an intrusion. I would look for a table with kids and go introduce myself and ask if I could show them something amazing. After doing a trick or two for the kids (which should still be strong enough to impress the adults) I would close with an effect for "the grown-ups" that would blow them away and garner a lot of applause and laughter. During their reaction, I'd scan the other tables to see who was watching and showing an interest. those would be the ones I'd go to next, etc. I'd also be sure to have the staff asking people if they'd like me to visit their table. Of course, I always share my tips with them in exchange for this service.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
I believe Scott and Joe are right on concerning this topic. It IS rude to just start performing with nary an introduction or anything. In fact, I think this could make one look like a complete arse if you do 30 seconds of schtick then the table says "no thanks". Here's an idea, actually communicate with the people at the table. Ask how their night is, if they're having a good time at the restaurant, etc. Yes, I'm the magician here (my name tag gives this away) - would you like to see something amazing while you wait? Sometimes I'll say "I'll give you one guess you I am?" and then I glance down at the name tag (it's a small, metal tag, NOT a button). Many times they think I'm the manager (which is ok, since this gives me a bit of respect as I'm talking with them). Once they find out I'm the "house magician" they usually react with surprise and THEY will ask to see something. They already know I'm curteous and a "nice guy" so they are usually very receptive. Then kill them with the magic. There's no trick to the approach - no manuever, no angle. Communicate with your audience and the rest will follow.
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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
For anyone interested, I highly recommend Jon Allen's video, "Spectators Don't Exist". He has some excellent advice on approaching tables cold - his advice has helped me a lot! It's simple, but terrific.
Ron Reid |
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BenSchwartz Elite user Southern California 499 Posts |
I agree with Doug on this one. BTW Doug, we work for the same guy =). I work D&B in Ontario and Irvine.. if you ever need a sub for San Diego be sure to tell me. Brian has my number.
"The experience of astonishment is the experience of a clear, primal state of mind that they associate with a child's state of mind." ---- Paul Harris
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iSawThat Regular user The Ivory Tower 188 Posts |
I've never actually table-hopped at a proper restaurant, though I am seriously thinking of looking for a job (there's another problem: what's a good way to get hired?), but I just thought of a pretty magical opening. Approach a table with a large silk and ask if anyone had ordered that. Flash both hands empty, and when you get your negative replies (if anyone actually did order it you can pass it off as some weird mentalism effect!) produce a bottle of coke, wine or whatever from the silk. Wonder if it will work...
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omnibozo Regular user Boulder, CO 151 Posts |
Another way to reduce the "cold approach" problem is to start drawing other tables into the action while finishing up at one table. This can be as simple as catching someone's eye at another table while you look away during a card signing... or extend it a little and say "don't worry... I'll come over and read your mind in a moment!" If you are working for kids, make sure and check out the older folks watching how you interact with them... even if they decide they don't want any magic at their table, it is well worth the time to talk with them a little. I've had them tip me... and ask me to do some more stuff for the kids at the first table.
The idea of having the wait staff introduce you or suggest that you perform is priceless! Good wait staff know that even if the table tips you, their tip will be bigger because the people had such a good time! |
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
You want to use anything to break the ice. If they are "regulars" they will know who you are, or if they are friends or family of the wait staff (this happens more than you would realize). If you see other people watching you from other tables (as omnibozo stated above) or if people look over after an especially strong reaction to a trick.
If they are curious I will use this "reaction" to break the ice on the approach to a table. For me, this is THE most awkward part of walk-around magic (not, however, for banquet work). You do get a "feel" for what tables will be receptive and which tables just want to be left alone (e.g. a couple staring lustfully into each others eyes - just keep going. Trust me, card tricks aren't the thing on their minds). Sometimes it's real easy and EVERYONE wants you to perform - other times I feel like I have some sign on my back that says "leper". As I said before, communicating is key. If someone says they aren't interested, just smile,thank them for coming in and wish them a good evening. No big deal. Then spit on them as you walk away (okay, maybe not). If you do a quick production (like Isawthat stated above) you may get their attention and they may want more - but ... if they don't - pretend to dab your eyes with the hankerchief saying "15 years of training gone to waste" (this only works if you are older than 15). Thank them for coming in, wish them a good evening, spit, etc. You never know how people will react. One thing I would be interested in is the reactions to table approaches based on AGE. Do some of you younger whipper-snappers get dissed because you LOOK wet behind the ears or is everyone pretty much the same? I'm thirtysomething and I think people are more respectfull now that I'm a little older. Doug Brewer San Diego, CA |
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BenSchwartz Elite user Southern California 499 Posts |
I think that I get a bad rap a lot of times because I am young.. LOL...but it's alright because I can communicate VERY WELL with college age people.. =O)
"The experience of astonishment is the experience of a clear, primal state of mind that they associate with a child's state of mind." ---- Paul Harris
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