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Gary Dayton Special user New Jersey 542 Posts |
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On 2007-03-07 18:59, Harry Lorayne wrote: You are right Harry, I would grab some of yours, as well. I've spent many, many hours with your books. They are definately some of the best. Need more hands, though! |
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Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
Harry Lorayne,
Welcome! We are honored to have you post in this thread. I have a signed copy of The Memory Book. Years ago, I worked in a magic shop in Denver and sold the heck out of your book CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC. I have seen you work and you are the master! Thanks for stopping in! Autumn Morning Star stoneunhinged Jeff, What a marvelous description! I never thought of Erdnase in those terms, but it is full of elegant American prose. Glad your spouse is your sweetheart, but I had to make allowances for a bit of leverage (and grins). However, I am not going to ask what you will grab if the sinkhole comes! PS: You are in Göttingen, DE? I believe we are almost neighbors, a mere 2 hour trek on the Autobahn. I have a magic studio near Bamberg, Germany where I stay about half of the year! I am American, but I do my show in German, too, (scripted and memorized by a German tutor to be certain of 'mein grammatik'.) Die Grammatik ist schwierig! (Translation: The grammar is difficult!) However, Germany is lovely. Autumn
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Autumn--I wouldn't say neighbors, since I don't have a car. But I'll PM you about Germany stuff.
Everyone else, did I forget to mention that Erdase is "like buttah!" Gruss, Jeff |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
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On 2007-03-09 12:15, stoneunhinged wrote: I do love "Erdnase", but if I were to pick that as my only book, I'd defiantely choose one of the annotated versions. More bang for the buck. Lately I've been into "Expert Card Technique", Lots of good stuff there. Such a hard choice.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Vandy, if you could only choose an annotated version of Ernase, which one would it be? Vernon's or Ortiz's or a lesser known one?
Gruss, Jeff |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
I only ones I've seen are "Revelations" and Ortiz's version. I've only had a look at "Revelations", but I own Darwin Ortizs book. So for now I'd have to pick "The Annotaed Erdnase".
But I'm sure I will pick up "Revelations" one of these days as well.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
I think that Ortiz's "The Annotated Erdnase" has the best of the annotations. I've got Vernon's book as well, but it's not as comprehensive as Ortiz's.
What is important though, is that some of Vernons thoughts on specific items in "Revelations" aren't touched on in Ortiz's book. You really need both. Persi Diaconis's 10 page intro to "Revelations" is a great read as well. Mike Caveney told me that he will be re-releasing the Vernon "Revelations" book this year(2007), so the days of the $150.00 copy will be over, and it will be back down around 40 or 50 bucks. |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-03-09 14:26, silverking wrote: Great news! Now I have no excuses not to own it.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
The Annotated Erdnase is one of my very favorites, Silverking. A classic!
Autumn
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
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Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts |
I learned from Erdnase when I was trying to learn sleights. Card College is your best bet esp. if you are a beginner. CUCM is a classic and those two books would keep you busy for a long time.
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Canvey Card Sharp Special user Canvey Island Essex ENGLAND 552 Posts |
Without any second thoughts I'd have to say the Classic Collection by Harry Lorayne. The sheer amount of workable, commercial effects within this book would keep anyone busy with enough card material for a lifetime.
In second place (and a very close second) is Paul Gordon's Nocturnal Creations. This book, to my mind, contains exceptional material with more direct handling of many commercial card magic effects. Just a couple of points on some of the titles mentioned by others. Card Zones (Duffie & Sadowitz) looks a well produced book on quality china clay paper BUT there are glaring omissions and errors throughout - particularly the CONSTANT referrals to diagrams that simply don't exist. Martin Breese clearly didn't have this book proof read before releasing it for sale -shameful. People have also referred to Erdnase; not wanting to start a debate on the good and the bad points of Expert At The Card Table publication - nor to be controversial. However, I really don't think Erdnase would rate so highly in people's opinion were it not for the fact that legends such as Vernon endorsed it as the best card book ever? Okay, I accept it was written in 1902. Why? - it isn't completely clear or accurate in its descriptions of many sleights - the illustrations are awful and also contain inaccuracies - I would take a little bet (tho no doubt I'll be told otherwise!) that no one but no one actually performs any of the effects contained within the version containing the 'Legerdemain' section So is it people's first choice purely for the historical link? Or because some card magic stars, past and present, seem to have this love affair with it? Let's be completely honest, if this book was produced today it would be torn to shreds (not literally of course) on magic forums and within magazine reviews across the globe ! Just my quids worth - don't expect everyone to agree as we all have our choices in life to make!
Barry Allen
A Trick....A Smile....Applause |
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Terry Screen Regular user Zhejiang China 106 Posts |
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On 2007-03-11 03:07, Canvey Card Sharp wrote: If you didn't want to start a debate on the merits of Erdnase, then why make such remarks? My personal opinion is that someone who rates Mr. Gordon's book higher than Erdnase would have to be . . well I'm not in the mood for a banning right now so maybe later. Of COURSE the time frame that EATCT was published has some bearing on its influence and popularity but so what? Your "torn to threads" comment doesn't stand up since even though it was written more than 100 years ago, it is still being discussed (favourably) and debated by sensible (well sometimes), serious minded magicians all over the globe, and I believe that 100 years from now that will still be the case. Wonder if "Nocturnal Creations" will be able to lay that claim in the year 3007? Highly unlikely. Without wanting to start a debate (sic) on the merits (?) of "Nocturnal Creations", the fact is that it WAS written in our present modern times and HAS in fact been torn to shreds on other fora. Paul Gordon's rated more highly than Erdnase? Surely you jest. Anyways . . RRTCM, ECT, and the Vernon Trilogy, all get my vote. Oh and lest I forget . . EATCT. |
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joseph Eternal Order Please ignore my 17411 Posts |
John Bannon and Darwin Ortiz material gets me practicing
all the time.... ..
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Einstein)...
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
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On 2007-03-11 03:07, Canvey Card Sharp wrote: Despite these facts, I consider "Expert At The Card Table" is one of most inspirational books for cardicians. In the Card Magic History book I just finished writing, I spared 3 pages for Erdnases quotes. Dai Vernon told me (when he visited Japan in 1969), he was influenced not only with sleights Erdnase explained but also with Erdnase's wise remarks. If you read the book critically on Erdnase's writing and Smith's illustrations, you will miss the essence of Erdnase. If you are only looking for useful card tricks, maybe Erdnase and Hofzinser won't be useful books. However, I highly recommend these two books if you wish to make your base as a cadician more firm. Hideo Kato |
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Rossolim0z Regular user 142 Posts |
Who says nothing holds a candle to card college? There's many great beginner books out there to start with. Please stick to facts with proof, not opinions without merit.
And there's nothing knucklebusting about RCT! They are dificult sleights but knucklebusters they aren't. Brian tudor' stuff is knucklebusting, Marlo's isn't Quote:
On 2007-03-06 16:45, scorch wrote: |
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sleightofand Regular user London, UK 188 Posts |
I am surprised no one has mentioned rrtcm!!
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
Mr.Terry Screen mentioned RRTCM.
Hideo Kato |
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snushy Veteran user 338 Posts |
A quote from Gary Ouellet's "Close Up Illusions:"
" Young magicians get a whole lot of bad advice. For some reason, when a magic neophyte approaches an experienced magician for advice on learning the craft, the experienced magician falls back on what is perceived to be the conventional wisdom, and recommends the so-called classics. Read Erdnase, the youngster is admonished. Read Magic by Misdirection, Read Showmanship for Magicians. Read the Unmasking of Robert Houdin. Read Hofsinzer. Learn the glide. Learn the French Drop. Practice back and front palming. Work on the classic pass. With advice like, it is a wonder any of them persevere... As for books, the old books lacked sufficient illustration, and sufficient narrative to hook the average reader. the venerables, such as Erdnase, may well be pithy, as the Professor is quick to piint out; but they are pretty dry and dull reading. Better to earn your spurs with the likes of a Harry Lorayne, who gets your enthusiasm up enough to at least try the *** thing once. Erdnase is for the committed post-graduate student of magic." I realize this may be a bit off-topic. This thread was originally on the best book on card magic. It seems some, myself included, have drifted into which is the best book for a beginner, so I thought the Oulett quote apropos. BTW, Oulett recommends the relative beginner read: 1. The Stars of Magic 2. Close Up Card Magic, Lorayne 3. Any Paul Harris book 4. The Mark Wilson Course in Magic
YOU KNOW WHY YOU DON'T SEE? BECAUSE YOU DON'T WATCH! - SLYDINI
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
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However, I really don't think Erdnase would rate so highly in people's opinion were it not for the fact that legends such as Vernon endorsed it as the best card book ever? Everyone can take my opinion for what it's worth: that of an inexperienced, newbie playing-card dabbler who is not even ready to call himself a magician, much less give a public performance. It is the first book on card work that I ever owned, just because the title sounded like what I was looking for and it was cheap and I could buy it from Amazon here in Germany. The reviews on Amazon were positive. I thought the book would teach me some sleights. I knew nothing of magic in general. I did not know the name Dai Vernon. Quote:
So is it people's first choice purely for the historical link? Or because some card magic stars, past and present, seem to have this love affair with it? Again, the book's resonance with "stars" means nothing to me. The historical link does. So does its sentimental value. But there is more than that. I also had a kind of Eureka Moment long after I had already bought RR and Card College and was trying to learn some tricks. I was reading The Erdnase System of Cull Shuffling and a light bulb clicked on: hey, this is more about using your head than having manual dexterity! What makes Erdnase so special is not the sleights. These you can find elsewhere, better described. It is, rather, his philosophy. If you think of Erdnase as a philosopher of cards, he has virtually no equal. My comparison to Machiavelli was meant to be taken literally. The Prince and Expert at the Card Table are serious, concise, superbly presented views of the world. They even share many of the same thoughts. Erdnase is to cards what Machiavelli is to politics. Being "philosophy" as such, it is not for everyone. Maybe it's not even for most. It won't give you the most tricks and it won't teach you much about developing a magical persona or modern patter. It won't serve as a reference book for all historical variations on all imaginable sleights. But it can--like Machiavelli's Prince--give you a lifetime's worth of things to think about. And unlike the vast majority of card books, it's not even mostly about cards. If you don't understand this last point, you'll never understand its appeal. Gruss, Jeff |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
The FIRST THIRD of "Expert at the Card Table" contains information and observation that no other book has ever come close to equaling.
The sleights may be better described elsewhere, but unfortunatly the sleights as taught in other books don't contain Erdnase's wry and brilliant observations on cards and the people who handle them. Although I'd never want Expert to be the ONLY book in my collection, it's the one book I couldn't imagine NOT HAVING in my collection. For the desert island scenario, I'd still take Ortiz's "The Annotated Erdnase" with me. If I could sneak a second book in under my jacket, it would be "Revolutionary Card Technique" by Marlo, simply because you'd never get bored on the island learning from it, and would most certainly die before you could actually perform everything Marlo proposes in the book. (even in the city, with no desert island to contend with, I think everybody dies before they can do everything in Expert at the Card Table AND Revolutionary Card Technique). |
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