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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » From The Twilight Zone! What would you do if You had such a magical timepiece? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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daffydoug
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Thanks for the info! Didn't realize this theme was so popular.
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elmago
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Here is a twist. What about the Twilight Zone episode that takes place during the Cival War. A Confederate scout goes into a town to check on the Union Soldiers who are taking over. He finds everyone "Frozen". He finds out that it was done by witchcraft. The old male witch gives him a witchcraft book that will teach him how to do this and win the war. The catch is that he has to do it in the name of Satan and rebuke God. Well, he burned the book to side with God and we all know how the war ended. Kind of makes you think...

Conclusion: Only the people in the area are "Frozen". Everything else works and the rest of the world is OK. Is this a better deal?
MR
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Scott Cram
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MagiClyde
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Jonathan, you're right about light in a vacuum being the true constant.

Other speeds have been obtained in other ways. Here is the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

There is some really good information here, including the fact that scientists have not only been able to stop light(see "slow light" experiments on same link), but have even been able to have laser beams go at 300 times the speed of light (see "Faster than light" experiments on same link.
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MagiClyde
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Oops, I forgot to add one thing about the Outer Limits episode. The dark creature that the couple encounters wasn't evil per se, he was someone who had been trapped in the "frozen" continuum when he missed the window of opportunity to return to normal time. He wanted one of them to sacrifice themselves so he could return to normal time/space.
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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2007-03-11 23:16, chrismatt wrote:
Daffydoug,

Cliffg37 and mandrake01,

As for the science "fantasy" (as opposed to "fiction") of "Star Trek," there would be a barely plausible explanation for why time dilation effects would not be apparent. (Of course, no one on the ship would notice anything out of the ordinary, even if near light speed was routinely attained, as they would all age in the same time frame--but they certainly would notice their earth and planet bound friends and relatives were growing old and dying with astonishing frequency!) The "barely plausible explanation" would be if the Enterprise's "warp drive" could somehow warp (fold) the space between the ship and their destination, akin to opening up a "wormhole" (shortcut) between the two places. Then the ship would not really be travelling near (or, Heaven forfend, greater than) the speed of light--it would "simply" be travelling through a tear in the fabric of space-time from one place to another. In other words, "speed" would not really be involved, so much as quantum mechanical disappearances and appearances.

Certainly, this is terribly obvious to members of this site, since we are in the habit of making objects pop into and out of existence all the time!

Regards,
CM


I do believe there were references to "folding" space in the first pilot of Star Trek, but it got too involved.

Heinlein did a story about twins being used for instantaneous communication between Earth and a near-lightspeed starship. When he gets back, the hero is approximately three or four years older and his brother is in his early 90s!
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
chrismatt
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That, of course, is the famous "twins paradox." (And I'm not referring to that other cosmic question asked this time of year: Why Minnesotans have a major league ballpark with plastic trash bags as their outfield fence?)

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CM
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Psy-Kosh
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Weeeeell... The mass doesn't exactly increase, as such. From the perspective of the object itself, its mass stays the same.

It's, well, just like in relativity, space and time become unified into a single thing called spacetime, energy and momentum become unified into a single thing called "4-momentum"

To explain that, I'll first explain 4-velocity. Essentially, one's 4-velocity is one's instantaneous vector through spacetime. That is, the change in position in spacetime (not space, but spacetime) with respect to propertime. That is, as measured from the perspective of the object in question.

This is a geometric concept. The numbers representing it change, but it is what it is.

Now, when you want to represent it in a specific coordinate frame, say... from the perspective of some observer B, then observer B determines A's 4-velocity like so:

If B and A are at the same event (point) in spacetime, then B could check what is the amount of time that passes on B's clock per time that passes at that point on A's clock? What is the change in A's x position (as measured by B) with respect to A's clock, what is the change in A's y position (as measured by B) with respect to A's clock, etc...

Now, multiply that whole thing by A's rest mass-energy. That gives the 4-momentum. The time component corresponds to energy, the spacial components correspond to what we normally thing of as momentum.

Now, the 4-momentum is what it is. It's based on a geometric quantity. It's a 4-vector in spacetime. But from different coordinate systems (say, the regular coordinate systems used by different observers) it will split into components differently.

Now, in relativity, in flat spacetime, the metric is (letting c=1) x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - t^2

(or you can flip the signs around. This way corresponds to spacial distance, other way corresponds to temporal distance. That is, other way corresponds to the amount of time that will be measured along a straight path between the two events in question)

4-momentum is conserved in relativity. In flat spacetime, it is conserved locally and globally. In GR, that is, curved spacetime, no promises (as I understand it) about global conservation, but locally it's conserved. It all ends up, at low velocities, working out to correspond to what we normally consider kinetic energy and momentum.

As for the watch itself... I'd want to know how the clickity clickity clack it works! Heck, if I was using it, how could I even see or interact with anything else? How could I breathe?

I'd really want to what the operating principles were here. Smile

The effect itself doesn't even make sense. Would it stop all time at the "same time"? That doesn't even mean anything in relativity. Let's even approximate by assuming spacetime is flat everywhere. Then what the watch would consider "at the same time" would depend on its own velocity. Hrm... What happens if you stop time with it, then accelerate it?

(Oh, as far as the experiments getting light to go faster than the speed of light, well, that's sortakinda. Short version is they haven't gotten _information_ going faster. (Entanglement, afaik, doesn't allow transmision of classical information (ie, the type of information you think of when you think of information) so you couldn't use that to cheat Einstein either.)
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2007-03-29 21:23, Psy-Kosh wrote:
Weeeeell... The mass doesn't exactly increase, as such. From the perspective of the object itself, its mass stays the same.

It's, well, just like in relativity, space and time become unified into a single thing called spacetime, energy and momentum become unified into a single thing called "4-momentum"

To explain that, I'll first explain 4-velocity. Essentially, one's 4-velocity is one's instantaneous vector through spacetime. That is, the change in position in spacetime (not space, but spacetime) with respect to propertime. That is, as measured from the perspective of the object in question.

This is a geometric concept. The numbers representing it change, but it is what it is.

Now, when you want to represent it in a specific coordinate frame, say... from the perspective of some observer B, then observer B determines A's 4-velocity like so:

If B and A are at the same event (point) in spacetime, then B could check what is the amount of time that passes on B's clock per time that passes at that point on A's clock? What is the change in A's x position (as measured by B) with respect to A's clock, what is the change in A's y position (as measured by B) with respect to A's clock, etc...

Now, multiply that whole thing by A's rest mass-energy. That gives the 4-momentum. The time component corresponds to energy, the spacial components correspond to what we normally thing of as momentum.

Now, the 4-momentum is what it is. It's based on a geometric quantity. It's a 4-vector in spacetime. But from different coordinate systems (say, the regular coordinate systems used by different observers) it will split into components differently.

Now, in relativity, in flat spacetime, the metric is (letting c=1) x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - t^2

(or you can flip the signs around. This way corresponds to spacial distance, other way corresponds to temporal distance. That is, other way corresponds to the amount of time that will be measured along a straight path between the two events in question)

4-momentum is conserved in relativity. In flat spacetime, it is conserved locally and globally. In GR, that is, curved spacetime, no promises (as I understand it) about global conservation, but locally it's conserved. It all ends up, at low velocities, working out to correspond to what we normally consider kinetic energy and momentum.




HUH?? Smile
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Scott Cram
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Quote:
On 2007-03-09 23:42, clynim wrote:
How do you know it doesn't? Smile

A modern version of that tale had a woman owning the timepiece. In the end, she froze time just before a nuclear missle was about to land in her town. She could even see it hovering in mid-air, ready to hit the ground. Needless to say, she knew that if she re-activated time, everyone that she knew and loved would be destroyed. No thanks!

What would I do with it? Don't know right off. Probably try to catch up on practicing my magic and reading books. I like privacy and the idea of not having to worry about the daily concerns we all face. With my luck, however, I'd lose the watch and spend eternity just trying to find it.

As for Burgess Merideth, he wanted to be left alone so he could read to his heart's content. But he broke his glasses and was unable to do even that, making his desired solitude a real hell.


I've always like Futurama's take on the "Time Enough At Last" episode.
Psy-Kosh
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Quote:
On 2007-03-30 20:14, daffydoug wrote:

HUH?? Smile


Er.... to which part?

<_<

>_>
ed rhodes
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Actually, to answer the original question, I'm pretty certain I'd mess it up as badly if not worse than the guy in the episode!
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
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