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WilliamWHolcomb Special user Twinsburg, Ohio 533 Posts 
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Has anyone seen this DVD? Is it worth getting? I have the Ammar tapes but I'm looking for something which is a little less "formal" than the standard C&B routine. I want something gritty and fast-paced. Thanks in advance...
William Holcomb
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ixnay66 Inner circle Denver 1525 Posts
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I thought it was great. Johnny Ace Palmer has a great routine with baby chicks for final loads he uses in his formal show. Naturally this isn't very practical so he has a second routine with potatoes he uses for walk-around. The routine on this tape is definitely for walk-around and it's very practical. It uses sponge balls for final loads and then Carl goes into a sponge ball routine. He mentions he's done the routine MANY times and he's done it with both solid loads and sponge ball loads and that he hasn't seen a difference in effect. So if that's true, he's very smart. Plus the sponge balls will stay "high" up in your pocket and you can still utilize the bottoms for coins and what-not. He uses a sharpie for a wand. I think you'll like it!
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3094 Posts
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Hi William,
I have the DVD. Nothing really new in the way of technique, or routining. He uses 2 cups. Carl feels that 3 cups are too many and 1 is not enough. As was mentioned he uses sponge balls which compliments his Ain't no mo routine. Not a bad video but if you know C&B it's just modified to use 2 cups. Good explanations both front and rear views plus the explanation of his sponge routine. Hope this helps David Paul
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Tim Hannig Inner circle Chicago area 1149 Posts
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I think it's a great DVD...fun to watch and put together well.
There are some great moments in the routine, and what I thought was a great closing line with the 3 sponge balls.
Author of PERFORM, the 2020 Magic Cafe Book of the Year
"I loved this book!" Ken Weber "4 out of 4 stars!" Nick Lewin "This will be a classic of magic!" Mark Pocan performbettershows.com |
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WilliamWHolcomb Special user Twinsburg, Ohio 533 Posts
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Thanks for the response guys! What size sponge balls does Carl use for his routine?
I just ordered the DVD and I should probably get the sponge balls sent with it. Thanks again... Bill
William Holcomb
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ixnay66 Inner circle Denver 1525 Posts
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You don't HAVE to use sponge balls. You can use any loads you want. Personally I think Cups and Balls should be a closer. He uses 2 sizes. 2" and 3" I think (but don't quote me on that!)
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R2 Special user 935 Posts
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The Cups and Balls is an ancient ritual in the annals of magic...!
Do you not think or suppose that somewhere in the worlde exists a tale that if spoken as the actions were performed in lockstep.....would elicit an emotional response....rather than, "Here is a ball watch it penetrate the copper cup...now watch it again...."hey look it transformed into a lemon...etc....?" Nice trick, but where is the passion or magic? Without emotion humour,sadness, etc. there is none for me at least! The cups and balls has not evolved into a compelling story! This is my holy grail quest on a daily basis......"Find a story that allows me to make sense of the cups and balls movement" I have tried a few generic tales to no avail.....Perhaps I shall encounter the inspirational spark on this day? 
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts
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I think ixnay66 was confusing two tapes. First is the Johnny Ace Palmer video on his "trilogy" series. This is the routine I use and was personally taught to me by Johnny. This a great, great routine - very practical and easily resets. It also involves the spectators intimately during the entire routine. This is my reputation making routine in walk-around. The Carl Andrews video (DVD) is a two-cup routine for walk-around. I especially like the beginning with the production of the balls. However, the routine does not involve the spectators (as much as the previous routine) and ends with the production of sponge balls. While this is clever, and leads into another routine (always a good idea), I think the real killer part of the final loads is that they are huge AND not compressible. People can't figure out how you can sneak such a large load under the cup without them seeing it (I always use large, red potatoes). It's magic, dude! Both are good routines, but you have to decide on your style and what you want the spectators to remember about this routine. It's my closer and it pounds them into mush. However, you may want a "softer" routine, which is entertaining, but leads into the sponge ball routine. Just my opinion.
Doug Brewer San Diego, CA |
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leefoley3 Elite user Texas 402 Posts
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Quote: Have you ever seen more than one cups and balls routine performed by a "Pro"?
On 2003-01-17 10:21, ReyRey wrote: The magic is what you make it. As in all magic tricks/routines it is the presentation that makes or breaks. Check out Ammar on "Worlds Greatest Magic V" if you ever get the chance. Record it. Watch the performance first, then watch it again and focus on the spectators. They are COMPLETELY blown away. The cups and balls routine has not been around for hundreds of years because it lacked entertainment value. Make it your own and rock on !! 
In December of '06 I was diagnosed with a very rare cancer, Dermatofibrosarcoma Protuberans. One in a million people worldwide are diagnosed with this type of cancer annually. Sarcomas account for 1% of all cancers. Knowledge is power!
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts
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For those interested, I have a 2-Cup table-hopping routine (different from Carl's) that I have been doing to great response for 7 or 8 years. It's in my "More" book, which I will soon be reprinting with phots. I will also be marketing the routine by itself once I get the photos done. PM or email for details if you're interested.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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WilliamWHolcomb Special user Twinsburg, Ohio 533 Posts
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ReyRey,
You always make me think! I love you style!
William Holcomb
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saturnin Special user Montreal, Canada 964 Posts
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Hi everyone.
As anyone seen Paul Gertner's Cups & Balls routine with silver METAL balls in World's Greatest Magic??? It is simply awesome. Personally it is my favorites routine along with Maichael Ammar's and Ricky Jay's. My 2 tiny canadian cents. Ronnie Lemieux Montreal Canada
There is no road to happiness,
happiness is the road! |
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R2 Special user 935 Posts
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Lee perhaps you misunderstood the essence of my question.....?
William>? Thank you Brother....! I am dedicated to your success! Please keep in touch! Yes a cups and balls routine has a load of entertainment value in and of themselves peformed properly.....by a "Pro" or otherwise! I am a story teller! There are no tricks in my arsenal...I merely use equipment to help convey stories. I am looking for a personal story to tell which can be told using three cups and # Balls... Please forgive me for this Lee, but your post provided nary an inspirational spark for moi! Adios Amigos! Keep it real! No theories! Experience counts...nothing else will do for me. R2 |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Rey**2
Only your personal insight will 'do it for you'. Only then will it be 'your personal story' anyway. It must be difficult to find stories to match existing routines. Seems the same kind of problem as composing music for an existing ballet as per 'Nutcracker'. Superimposing a contrived story onto a ritual tends to some across as insincere anyway. First, what the heck are those "CUPS"? Would you drink from them? If not, what are they? (this should set the scene) next the balls... what are they there to represent? do they have to be balls? do you have to call them balls? The rituals in this craft serve to build competance though make lousy performance scripts. They serve more as mile markers on the road to becomming an artist. As one old timer put it to me: "the path that can be shown is not THE PATH" Napkin pieces, mice, kids being dropped off to school (wearing sweaters) or whatever, the large scale variation of 'three shell game' will benefit from your creativity.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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ixnay66 Inner circle Denver 1525 Posts
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I'm not confused. I know there are two tapes. (Re-read my post) I was making a point that you don't have to have one routine. Johnny Ace Palmer has a formal, sit down routine and a walk around routine. I also gave my opinions on the tape in question, the Carl Andrews tape.
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WilliamWHolcomb Special user Twinsburg, Ohio 533 Posts
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ReyRey, I read you earlier post with great interest. I've never really considered the "why" when doing C&B's. Well, you got me thinking and although I'm sure I'll fall short of providing a solid story to tell with C&B's, I'd like to share this.
I recently watched David Regal's volume 2. He has a routine called "Cups & Balls & Cups & Balls." The routine has a very unique twist. Without going into too much detail, he begins and ends his routine with the old novelty, multi-colored, plastic cups sold to children. It got me thinking...everyone knows about C&B's and I think that many, many people have played with the dime-store ones when they were children. There's a story there just begging to come out! David has some good patter, but I'm sure it can be improved upon. Like I said, it may not the the "Holy Grail" of C&B routines, but the idea is interesting to say the least. If you haven't, check out David's video and let me know what you think!
William Holcomb
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts
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For those who may be interested, my table-hopping routine is now available in an 11 page manuscript (comb bound) with 59 photos. Cost is $7.50. Pm or email me if interested.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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Geoff Weber Inner circle Washington DC 1384 Posts
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One thing that might help in your endeavor to add meaning to your routine is to define one very crucial element: Which element is magical? Are they magic cups? magic balls? or is it a magic wand? (if you use a wand).
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R2 Special user 935 Posts
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Nice thought Geoff and thank you William.....shameless plug there Scott and perhaps I shall send for your manuscript...
Check out Tim Ellis' novel approach to the CUps and Balls at http://www.seemagic.co.uk Just click on the eyeball icon at the very top and then click on Tim and Sue's name to view the video file of their Rock and Roll Routine....enjoy! |
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iSawThat Regular user The Ivory Tower 188 Posts
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Quote:
On 2003-01-17 19:13, leefoley3 wrote: Have any of you seen Tim Ellis' FISM winning cups and balls routine? It's the most inspired performance of this old classic I've ever seen by far. Unfortunately for mere mortals like me that routine is unperformable, both because he's got the charm to carry it off and because of the unique setting that it has to be performed in. |
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Posted: Jan 17, 2003 03:00 am 
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