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Dave Scribner
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Don't misunderstand this, but it sounds like you don't know very much about doves yet. Trying to raise them without a good knowledge of their habits and personality traits is dangerous.

Now as to your question, your dove will not lay a fertile egg by itself. There has to be a male and a female to produce a fertile egg. Your female might lay and egg but it won't ever hatch.

Doves are not like puppies. There is no runt of the litter. Doves lay two eggs at each cycle, generally several days apart. The first one will hatch and then the second. The first will appear to be bigger than the second but once they reach adult hood, they'll look the same.

Also, doves do not cry. If they are hurt by a sudden pain, they will make a chirping sound once but that is all.
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ibm_usa
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You are right, I have great regrets about buying the dove without proper information, I thought It would be like taking care of a parakeet, which was pretty easy. I have been following everyones advice and I literally had to force the dove off of my arm earlier tonight because it was so attached to me. a while ago, several months ago the dove would only perch on my arm for a fraction of a second, but now it will only fly off when I pick it up or its ready to go back into the cage to get some water. The dove is a male, I checked the place where Dave told me to check. The cage is big enough for only two doves so once I get a female, I will have to be friends with the local pet shop owner so I can give the extra hatchlings a home after several months have past.

I understand doves aren't dogs, and for this reason, If say a dove was to lay eggs, how long must I wait to give the hatchlings a new home? Dogs you have to wait a few months, does this apply to hatchling doves?
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
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The dove won't let anyone else but me touch it...in fact I'm the only person in the house who isn't afraid to touch the bird! A few days ago I decided to play a little prank on my brother, he was walking out of his room, I waited round the corner, with the bird on my shoulder, he turned the corner and jumped at the sight of the dove! The dove pooped on me, that was the last time I used the dove for a little joke.

anyway, every one's advice here has been very helpful. Me and my dove (still looking for a name.. the dove doesn't have much personality) appreciate the advice.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
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Quote:
On 2007-03-29 15:58, JoeJoe wrote:
My girlfriend's African Grey tries to feed her by regeritating.



that's disgusting! all well, that's what birds do. I would laugh my head off if I saw my bird feed my brother by regeritating! That wouldn't go so well for the bird in the end. never mind.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
JoeJoe
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I really feel for you here, and I feel even more for your dove. I don't think you realized what you were getting into, and you are now in over your head. May I suggest you try to find him a better home?

Please don't breed your dove! There are too many captive birds that need good homes in this world already. There really is no reason to breed him - you can't give one dove the attention it needs yet alone an entire flock.

Your dove is defidently plucking because he needs attention - he is scared, bored, lonely, frightened, and potentially insane. Put yourself in his place, not a great life huh? Please find a way to spend more time with him. If you can't afford another dove, then consider finding him a better home.

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
Dave Scribner
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Ibm, don't get discouraged. You've just made the same mistake that many new dove workers make. Dove magic always looks cool until you actually get into the behind the scenes stuff. It sounds like you are getting a good repore with your dove and that's good. It's what training is all about.

Remember that my suggestions for determining the sex is just based on experience and not guaranteed. You may still have a female.

As for the pecking, if you keep working with the dove everyday and take him out of his cage everyday, he'll lose some of his boredom and the pecking with stop. You might try spaying him lightly each day with a water spritz. It helps them preen and keeps him active drying himself off.

The reason it pooped when you scared your brother is because it was startled. It's a nervous reaction and that will never change so don't worry about it.

The reason it is scared of other people is because they are afraid of him. Doves will sense that and will not be secure. They have to get over their fear first.

If you get another dove and they lay eggs, remember there will be two several days apart, the minimum amount of time you'll have to keep them is 6 weeks. They have to be eating on their own and not dependent on the parents for anything. I would discourage you from giving them to a pet shop if at all possible. Pet shops don't care for their birds the way they should. Try to find another magician in you area that might be interested. If you don't want to raise the babies, just throw the eggs away when they are layed.

Do you have any dove videos? Some excellent choices are Tony Clark's "behind the seams" Andy Amyx's "doves 101" or Greg Frewins "complete course in dove magic" although his is $150 and slightly out of your budget right now. The other two are great sources to understand the care and feeding as well as training and effects you can do.

Just hang in there and work with your dove. Don't worry about naming the bird. They won't respond to the name anyway.
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ibm_usa
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I can see where the feathers are slowly growing back. I have to dove perching on the computer desk as this is being typed. Dave, I was wondering whats the best way to train the dove to fly back to you. This little fellow won't leave my side but just in case, how would you train them to fly back? The little fellow is just sitting here staring at the computer screen. I am letting him explore the house instead of keeping him in my room because the dog is out of town with the rest of the family so its just me and the dove...hanging out.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 2007-03-31 00:24, JoeJoe wrote:
I really feel for you here, and I feel even more for your dove. I don't think you realized what you were getting into, and you are now in over your head. May I suggest you try to find him a better home?

Please don't breed your dove! There are too many captive birds that need good homes in this world already. There really is no reason to breed him - you can't give one dove the attention it needs yet alone an entire flock.

Your dove is defidently plucking because he needs attention - he is scared, bored, lonely, frightened, and potentially insane. Put yourself in his place, not a great life huh? Please find a way to spend more time with him. If you can't afford another dove, then consider finding him a better home.

-JoeJoe



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Its not the matter of me affording an extra dove, its a matter of what it will take. I'm new to this and I want to make sure I know what I'm doing.
JoeJoe, I have been following your advice for the past week and the dove won't leave my side..Now I'm trying to figure out how to train it to fly back to me.
I can afford an extra dove, it won't be a problem, I just need to know what to look for.

is it normal for a dove to stare at the television set? his watching tv! I wonder if this bird is the only bird that will actually watch television.. He could be culturally enlightned!
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Dave Scribner
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You'll soon learn that there is nothing "normal" about doves. Every one is different. He's probably just enthralled by the TV because it is something different. Did you know that doves only see out of one eye at a time?

As to the flyback. First you need to determine if you really want to train him to do that. The question is why? If you are doing stage shows, then a fly back is nice but in someones home like in a birthday party, it's not a good idea. You have to ask yourself "does this fit in my act".

Now let's say that it does. Your training needs to consist of daily practice. You start out letting the dove walk from the left hand to the right. Then after a week, spread your hands a bit and let him jump from hand to hand. Do that for about a week and spread your arms even further apart. After another week, separate your arms as far as you can and let him fly hand to hand. It may take more than a week for each step but once he goes from hand to hand most of the time your ready for the fly back.

Let him perch on your finger and sort of toss him in a arch toward the other hand. Chances are he'll fly away at first but just keep at it. When he flys in an arch from hand to hand, start tossing him straight out. This will take the longest time in the training sessions. At first, he will fly away and land on the first thing he sees. You need to try and do this training in a room that has very little for him to land on. You can do this in a hallway very effectively. He has nothing but walls to land on and he'll fly back to you. Eventually, you'll be able to do it in a room with other things in it.

He'll feel safe and know he's suppose to come back to you. Another trick is to get a bright light. You can find these in Home depot or stores like that. They are used as work lights and are just a light with a metal shade. If you have a shop light on a stand, that will work as well. Turn on the light and toss the bird in the direction of the light. That's where only seeing out of one eye comes into play. He can't see in the light and will turn to find a landing spot. That spot needs to be your extended hand.

If you get the Tony Clark or Andy Amyx videos, they explain this technique quite well.
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ibm_usa
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Well now since you said it Dave, the FlyBack trick probably won't work because the audience this dove usually faces gets no more then 100 members. We don't do a whole lot of shows so it probably won't be worth the hard work. now, how much does the Tony Clark video cost? I will see if the local magic shop has one. I know that someone who works at the magic shop owns a few doves so he probably might have the video.

there is one trick the dove learned from somewhere else that he will only show me is what I call Dove Juggling. one day I was holding the dove in my hand and I was trying to see if he will come back to me, so I move my arm up and down trying to give the bird a lift and the bird just hovered over the hand and landed in the other. I tried it again and it seemed that the dove was being juggled from hand to hand. I could work some more with that. He only does it a few times a day and only when its just me and him.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Dave Scribner
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Tony Clarks videos are $35 each. There are 3 in the series. Unmasked I, II and Behind the seams. You can get all 3 directly from Tony for $99 until the end of April. He is a sponsor on the Café and his banner is on the first page. Most dealers carry his videos.
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JoeJoe
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I am glad to hear his feathers are starting to grow back, it sounds like you are now on the right track now and that is a good thing.

I highly recommend "recall" training ... or, getting the dove to fly to you on command. The most obvious reason for this is that should your dove ever get loose, he will know how to fly back to you - this will save you a lot aggravation.

You need to find a motivator ... either his favorite treat, or in some cases just praise and petting. Whatever your dove perfers, all birds are differnt. Once you have figured out what will motivate your dove, always reward him when he flys to you. Begin to cox him to come to you short distances and reward him.

An important thing to remember is that it is easier for a bird to fly up than it is for a bird to fly down! Thus, when you train your dove to come to you ... have him fly down from something higher than you.

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
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ibm_usa
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Thanks.

Now I need to figure out what motivates the bird. like I said earlier, he doesn't have much personality..he is almost a spitten image of me!
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Dave Scribner
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JoeJoe, I've been doing dove magic for many years and I must say that I have never seen anyone have a dove that would come to them when they called. Doves just don't respond that way.

A treat after an effect is performed is good training but offering that treat if the dove flys away usually doesn't have much effect. At least that has been my experience. I don't know everything about doves but experience tells me this doesn't work.

Amos Levkovitch has his doves fly to him from the rear of the auditorium but it's not because of the reward system or recall. The doves are in the dark and naturally fly "down" into the ligh where they see Amos standing. He is the only thing on the stage so they have almost no choice as to where to land.

It's amazing how well trained a bird seems when it just does what comes naturally.
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JoeJoe
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I would think that they could be ... my male dove would fly to me all the time, I never trained him to do so on que but he certainly would fly to me if he wanted to.

I had a friend in Maryland who took his dove anywhere and everywhere. One night in Baltimore, his dove got loose and was up high. He had to wait a while, but eventually the dove did fly back to him.

In Dave Womach's "flight training" video he is seen flight training a dove to fly from hand-to-hand. With a hand-fed dove bonded to his human, I would think it would be possible. Maybe not on que for performance purposes, but certainly a bird that has had experience flying to his human would be easier to recover than one that has never landed on his human.

-JoeJoe
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Dave Scribner
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Now I see what you mean. What you are describing about your dove is the natural reaction of the dove to fly. No dove will sit indefinitely in one place. When it's tired of sitting in one place and it sees you, it will fly to you if you've shown losts of affection which is what I think you are really trying to get across.

Doves often fly into the rafters even during shows. They will all come down eventually. The hand to hand flight training is the standard method of training. You start, as I explained to ibmusa, with a short distance and increase the distance each week. That's what builds the confidence.
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JoeJoe
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Yes, exactly ... "recall training", for recovery of lost birds. You never know what is going to happen, and if your bird has no experience flying to you then it is a major problem. Maybe it is just me, but since I don't cage my birds I consider recall training to be very important.


IBM: I forgot to mention earlier, but my cockatoo does indeed watch tv - I am pretty sure her eyes can see the screen, as the only time she pays the computer screen any attention at all is if I am watching a cockatoo video on YouTube.

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
ibm_usa
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I'm pretty sure a cockatoo is a lot more intelligent then a dove.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
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In speaking of training doves. The dove that I have is produced from a dove pan. Would perching on the finger or shoulder, etc be considered training because I really don't want the dove to do to much. The audience is never big enough for a dove to fly around.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
1906Alpha1906
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A dove will perch on about anything, so it doesn't need to be trained to do that. The training however, just involves you spending time with the dove so it will perch on your finger. Any type of threat and it will fly to the highest point to perch and look down on you instead (And may deliver a little "bomb" for you *haha*) If the doves trusts you, it will stay with you (unless startled, or off balance)
Dave Scribner
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There is a misconception by new dove workers that training means getting the dove to do the fly back. As I've said many times before, it isn't necessary to train a dove to fly back unless you are going to do that effect. Training, as Alpha said is getting the dove to sit on your finger no matter what. It takes time, patience and committment to make that happen.

Your dove may sit on your finger after it is produced but if you haven't put in the time, he'll take off at the slightest noise or commotion. The dove has two natural instincts. One is to perch and the other is to fly up into a tree when startled. A tree can be a chandelier, lamp, top of a window or anything else that is away from where it started. It's his natural defense mechanism.

Don't short change yourself or you dove. Give it all the love, care and attention you can even if you are only going to use a dove pan.
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