Hi guys,

I recently did a series of shows where I performed for a smaller theatre group and would be getting paid in percentage. We had a written agreement that I was to receive 50% of all TICKET SALES. So after the show, we settle up and he writes me 3 cheques....1 small amount for the first show, 1 medium amount for the second show, and 1 large amount for the last show. I cashed the first two no problem, and then came the 3rd one where I was given this story that I cannot get the money - as there was no $$ in his account (essentially bounced). And now, I don't know what direction to go. It is a fair amount, but is it enough that, if I had to, could I pursue it in small claims court.....?

Any ideas or suggestions - I live in Ontario, Canada.....

Please help.

Thanks.

Next time, don't take 3 separate checks.

Ask them for the money. Follow it up if it is worth your time. In America, you can recover many times the amount on a bad check. We actually have a division of the States Attorney who will get the money for you in Missouri.

I don't know anything about law in Canada...

Give the guy a telephone call and ask him when he plans on depositing enough money to cover the check. Point out that if he doesn't make good on the check, you will protest the check (ask your bank how to do that). Then if he fails to make good on it, you can have him arrested for writing a bad check. Usually the threat of arrest will get your money. Do not return the check to him, as that is your only proof that he wrote a bad check. Hang on to it for leverage.

I've only had to do that once. But when the guy got a call from the local sheriff's department, I had the cash in my hands in less than one hour.

Jim

Something to try... This might be the same as "protesting" a cheque, as described by Mr. Snack. I'm not familiar with that term.

Take the problem cheque to the bank branch the cheque was drawn on. It has to be the actual branch.

Ask the teller if there are sufficient funds to cash the cheque. They won't tell you any other banking info regarding the client, but they will tell you that.

If they say yes, then tell them you'd like to pay to get the cheque certified. Pay the fee and walk away with your cheque, less the fee.

If they say no, then repeat at logical intervals until they say yes or you give up.
A logical interval being a typical pay period, 15th, 30th of the month, etc.

Anyone can pay to have a cheque certified, not just the issuer.

I've done this twice over the years. Once, I left with a certified cheque and, hence, my money. The other time, the client realized I was going to be persistent and sent me a certified cheque.

I'm not familiar with banking procedures in Canada, but in the US you have to "protest" a bad check before taking any legal action. It just puts the person who wrote the check on notice that you are going to seek legal remedies and gives them 30 days to respond.

So if I understand your process correctly, once you have the check certified, you can deposit it in your account with assurances that it will be honored. Correct?

I know that some branches will not cash a check unless you have an account there, but if the funds become available, he may be able to cash it immediately at the branch. I would try that first.


Jim

Here in the U.S., a bank cannot tell you if there are funds to cover your check. They'll either cash it or not, but they tell NOTHING about someone else's finances.

I'd call the guy and nicely explain the situation. I'd hold off on any threats just yet. Hopefully, he'll apologize and the check will go through. If not, THEN you can look beyond -- but try the "gentleman's" route first.

Like Jim said, here you do have to give them 30 days. It also will cost you a fee to have it collected.

I agree with Starr, take the nice approach first. Who knows, maybe they just forgot to make a deposit? Or maybe it was the bank's fault; that’s what they always tell me. I just ask when they can get the bank to straighten it out. A nice way of telling them to deposit the money.

Tom

Well, he gave me a lame excuse if I ever heard one. I took a nice but FIRM approach with him - screaming or yelling isn't an option when it comes to collecting. The amount is fairly high (higher than some of you may think) in the range of 2000..... Obviously I wish I could have avoided this whole mess, but cheque was my only option (business cheque).

I wish I knew more about how it works in Canada. I've never had a situation like this before.

Here is the best advice you may get.

Find who is in charge of the "hot check division" in Canada. THEY will be happy to help you, and I would bet that the writer of the check is the one who will pay the fees.

There is a legal recourse for what has happened. Simply follow it, and you will get your money. Lesson learned.

Your first mistake was taking 3 different checks. Were they all given to you at the same time?

Get down to your local court house and spend the 50 bucks to take him to small claims court.

Where are you located in Canada? What is the name of the agency that burned you?

Best,

Tim

Tim is right.

I also live and work mostly in Ontario. Small claims court will enable you to put a "lien" on his bank account. Any money put into his account will automatically be transferred to you, whether he is aware of it or not. I have only ever had to use this once before, but it worked.

All the best,

Rob

I fail to see the "problem" with taking three cheques. The smaller one's cashed, correct? If all of it had been on one cheque, then he wouldn't have received anything yet at all.

I've only had one problem of this nature. In that case, the client's cheque bounced. Long story short, I finally "surprised" the customer at home and was given another cheque. I presented the cheque to the client's bank to cash it. I was told there were insufficient funds to cash the cheque. So, I persisted and resubmitted the check at another date and was able to get the cash.

I agree, 3 cheques was actually a blessing in disguise I think....
Tim, RJE, perhaps you can PM me to discuss further....I would rather not release names or companies over a live forum. I will give him a chance to make good and honor his payment. He did say that he would within 14-21 days. But what else would he say? LOL....

How long will small claims court take, and what is the procedure if we are in different towns? Any input on Canadian Small Claims Court would be appreciated, if I have to go down that avenue (costs, procedure, past experiences, lengths of wait etc.).

I was testing you when I asked for the name of the company. Of course if he doesn't make good on the check, then you'd be doing us all a favour by letting us know who he is. (So he doesn't do the same to us down the road.)

I was testing you to see if you are mad enough to stick with the small claims court route, which DOES work, but you have to be determined to stick it out as scammers always count on the fact that you will tire and give up. You have up to one year from the date of the check to file a claim, so give him his 14-21 days. If you take any excuses after that, you are NEVER going to see your money.

Post again after the 21 days and, if need be, I'll explain the court process in more detail.

Best,

Tim

Thanks, Tim.

You never know, he may make good on his cheque. After all, if you are going to scam someone, why would you give him two payments but not the third? You would think he wouldn't even honor any of them. LOL... He seems to have a business that has a following and is prospering in his area. And if you ask me, he would be jeopardizing a lot for $2000, as his name would be tarnished through word of mouth, etc., etc. But, then again, you never know, I guess.

Trust me, I am determined enough to go to Small Claims IF I have to, but we will see after 21 days. Once my personal time limit is up (which is not long), then I will proceed down the next road - which we will discuss. I will keep everyone informed and hope to receive more input.

Thanks, Tim, and thanks to everyone else!

Zaam,

Remember that the word "Con Man" comes from the term "Confidence Man". They scam you by earning your confidence with things like giving you two checks but not the third...etc.

Don't let yourself make any excuses for him. If you don't have your bucks in 3 weeks, move on to the court system. Expect him to offer up "another week or two" excuse in the 3 weeks, but don't let that stall you from proceeding. He can still pay you right up to the court date, so having him served won't interfere with him being able to pay you. In fact, he'll take you more seriously if he is served.

See ya in 3,

Tim

It being a business check, the odds are better that it will become good. Right before the time runs out, you could check with the bank again to see if it will pay and cash it.

I don’t know about in Canada, but here in the states, you have to wait 30 days before taking them to court on a non-sufficient funds check. Even then, the court will allow them time to make it good. It’s much harder to swiftly prosecute with a non-sufficient funds check than a non/closed account check.

Good Luck,

Tom

Zaam,

One more thing. DON'T give him that check back. If he tells you he needs it to get it certified, don't listen to him. You can either take it to the bank to get it certified or ask him for a new check. That check you have stamped NSF is gold in court, as he may change his story and deny you were owed the money.

Best,

Tim

Not to worry, Tim, I won't be giving any leverage to him whatsoever. Also, I agree with the term "confidence man". One theory I came up with was that he would give me the 2 cheques so that I have the mindset of, "Well, at least I didn't lose money," or, "It's not worth it to go to court." I have thought of every angle...and it's worth it to me. Even if I was filthy rich, it would be just out of principle.

Thanks again!

Well, I spoke to the theatres managers that I performed in (they know him much better than me) and they said that he always pays his bills but is "slow and unorganized"...Still not taking it lightly, but I was relieved to hear that. I sent him a polite but firm email and he contacted me back saying he should have something worked out this week. Im still nervous but feel slightly better...I will keep you guys updated.