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The Conjuror Regular user Illinois, USA 132 Posts |
Okay, so I just watched the latest DVD that I purchased, Magic Makers' The Complete Course in Magic with Cups and Balls by Eddy Ray. I learned a lot of great moves from this DVD. However, one move on the DVD is simply ridiculous. It's called the Mora Wand Spin Ball Vanish. He holds a ball in his left hand, does a Mora Wand Spin with his right hand, and vanishes the ball from his left hand into a finger palm in his right hand while doing the Mora Wand Spin. It looks difficult beyond belief! In fact, if it wasn't for Eddy Ray pulling it off on the DVD, I would have assumed it was impossible. Has anyone else seen this move before or was Eddy Ray just showing off? I can't believe anyone would even try to include this move into their C&Bs routine.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Ha ha, good one! Nice April Fools Day Trick, ho ho ho.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-04-01 01:22, The Conjuror wrote: You are joking, right? Just in case you aren't, this move was popularized by Dai Vernon. Michael Ammar teaches it on his DVD's. If you are a cups and balls worker, you should get those DVD's of Michael Ammar.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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flimnar Special user Salt Lake 577 Posts |
Nice catch, MagicSanta. The Conjurer had me going for a minute.....
Flimnar
"This one goes to eleven..." Nigel Tufnel
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The Conjuror Regular user Illinois, USA 132 Posts |
Hahaha... sorry Bill. Sadly, I wasn't joking on this post. And I also had no clue it was April Fool's Day. I'm still a beginner at the cups and balls (and will continue to consider myself a beginner for a LONG time) so I decided to get this DVD to go more in-depth. Everything Eddy Ray taught seemed feasible, except Vernon's Mora Wand Spin Vanish. It's a great vanish, but it just seems so intricate compared to all the other vanishes you could do. Maybe it's because I'm a beginner. I don't know. It just looks like a move that I could practice day in and day out for years yet never feel comfortable enough with it to use in a performance.
I guess the main reason I posted this was to see how many cups and balls workers actually use the Mora Wand Spin Vanish religiously in their routine. I think it's a great vanish when it's done right. Using a flourish in a vanish is really clever. But how many magicians are THAT comfortable with this move? It blew my mind. Quote:
On 2007-04-01 02:51, Bill Palmer wrote: I will definitely get Ammar's DVDs, Bill. Thanks for the recommendation. |
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EddyRay Special user United States Of America 525 Posts |
Thanks for the kind words Conjuror. As Bill said, it was Vernon who popularized the mora wand spin.
Ammar has really developed this move and gives good pointers in his DVDs. A good way to help cover any finger movements when the ball is being dropped into the hand spinning the wand is to actually purposely move them, as if you are rubbing the ball in your fingers to make it vanish. In other words, when you place the ball into your hand do not keep it completely still. Move the ball around in your hand just a bit to create some finger movement. Then bring up the wand and perform the spin. If you start the finger movement at the wrong time or later on in the move it becomes suspicious looking. Hopefully some of that made sense, it is a hard move to really explain in words. You just have to master the wand spin and timing is most important. |
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The Conjuror Regular user Illinois, USA 132 Posts |
Thanks for the advice, Eddy. And also, thanks for making the great DVDs. I learned a TON from them. I'll definitely take this all one step at a time. I was getting ahead of myself here when asking about the Mora Wand Spin. I guess I was just too amazed by it. LOL. But I'll definitely master the wand spin and then work on my timing and movement of the fingers for the vanish.
Your advice is greatly appreciated. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
It's fairly popular, as you have surmised. I don't do it. I don't like picking my wand off the floor!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Simple answer is it is a very good vanish and as you can imagine the specs will not think it possible to sneak out the ball during the move. The spin is Mora, Vernon added the work to it.
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Mobius303 Inner circle Lakewood, Ohio 1309 Posts |
Actually working the ball to a clip position rather than trying it with the ball in the middle of the hand in a fist is the way to go as Ammar points out in his DVD's. This is how to eliminate all finger movement as you drop the ball.
The wand spin and the ball drop are both feel things that are hard to explain unless you do them. I have not dropped my wand because I do not try to catch the ball I simply get my hand in the right pisition at the right time and the reast takes care of itself, or at least that is how it feels. Trying to catch the ball creates tension in other areas of the body and arm that will make two things happen, you will drop the ball or the wand, you will also give away that you did something. Oh, Before I forget, Ammar DVD's teach it well. Revelations 5 teaches it also with Dai and Michael discussiong it in depth. It is expertly explained in Michael Ammar's book "The Magic of Michael Ammar" Gazzo Explains it on his video along with his Street Cups Routine. There is more but that should explain it well enough for you to get it done. Mobius Hope that helps man, Mobius |
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flimnar Special user Salt Lake 577 Posts |
Sorry Conjurer--no disresepect intended. It is a great vanish but obviously requires timing and a lot of practice. David Regal offers some great tips as well in his "Cups and Balls and Cups and Balls" routine on his DVD "More Tricks, Vol. 2".
Good luck. Flimnar
"This one goes to eleven..." Nigel Tufnel
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
I do it a lot. The hard part for me is doing it surrounded.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Slappy Loyal user North Hollywood, CA 266 Posts |
In the meantime, Conjuror, while we both work on the spin vanish, I saw a real nice "push through" (I'm not sure if that's the right term)vanish used by John Mendoza...pushing the wand through his fist to vanish the ball on youtube...
"Help, I've got a silver ball stuck on my thumb"
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dxsare Veteran user 361 Posts |
You know I thought the same about that vanish until I watched the Ammar videos and within the first few times doin it everything just fell into place. I was very surprized, but the advice on the dvd's really made a huge difference. It obviously took lots of practice to make it ah... 100% but once you get the knack down, and really the timing, it's pretty simple. Mobius is right, it's more of the hands being where they need to be and the motion of the wand spin takes care of everything else. If you hit that everytime, the balls falls into fingerpalm automatically. It won't be long before your hitting it consistantly. Then just work on making it look as natural as possible. Oh yeah, especially when you are starting out, a heavier want really, REALLY makes a difference. If it's too light it will be very difficult to get the spin down, although I no longer have any problems with a light or smaller wand once I got it down with the heavier wand.
Stevie D
-Stevie D
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Bluzzmagic New user Las Vegas 70 Posts |
The through the hand vanish is the only one from Ammar's C&B book that I am nearly 100 percent comfy with. To me, however, Williamson's striking vanish seems even tougher to get than the Mora/Vernon spin. Using a small wand...like a sharpie.... the Williamson vanish is easier for me...but with my full sized wand it is really tough. Anyone else think so?
"Lying with his eyes while his hands are busy working overtime." J. Lennon & P. McCartney
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The Conjuror Regular user Illinois, USA 132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-04-02 17:41, Slappy wrote: Yes, definitely. I have Eddy Ray's C&Bs DVDs and he explains two methods of performing the push through vanish. I have a feeling I will learn a push through first and then work on the spin vanish afterward. The spin vanish will be a two-parter for me. First, learning the spin. Then I get to learn the vanish. Quote:
On 2007-04-02 21:31, dxsare wrote: Thanks for the advice! I will definitely look into wand weights when I learn the Mora Wand Spin. That didn't even occur to me, but it makes a lot of sense. |
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The Conjuror Regular user Illinois, USA 132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-04-02 21:51, Bluzzmagic wrote: I know what you mean. I can strike vanish a coin pretty good with a pen, but it's a lot more challenging with a different "wand." If you are interested in smaller wands, check out Magic Makers' wands if you haven't yet. They make perfect size wands for C&Bs and are perfectly balanced. It may take some time to get used to (they're not as small as a sharpie) but it will be easier than any full-size wand. |
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Bluzzmagic New user Las Vegas 70 Posts |
Thanks will keep that in mind....but presently am rather attached to my wand....even more so since I have glued in the cracks it had gotten in it from being dropped too many times learning to spin it, etc.
"Lying with his eyes while his hands are busy working overtime." J. Lennon & P. McCartney
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I use the spin, push thru and strike a lot... often varying just based on what I feel like doing. I actually have two ways to do the want spin vanishone as taught on the Ammar tape (which I learned years before from Vernon) and another that I came up with fooling around by going in the opposite direction and the steal is made as the hand with the wand comes UP.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
I've used the spin for years. I learnt it in a 3 step process:
1. Practice the spin itself 2. Practice passing the ball while miming the spin (with no wand in hand) 3. Add the wand for a combined spin and pass Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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