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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
I know my prices for my kid's show, I know my prices for a restaurant gig - but I got a request yesterday for 2 hours of strolling magic at an outdoor festival in a large city. The event is the opening of a new apartment complex and the re-opening of an old cobblestone street that had been shut down for 20 years. There will be vendors lining the street for this event, and they want me to do my strolling magic up and down the street for a couple hours.
I asked a full-time pro friend of mine, who works in Manhattan primarily. He said I should charge $700. That sounds like a BIG fee for two hours of strolling. That's not a fee I could even imagine asking right now. Maybe he is right, maybe I should be aiming that high - or maybe it's him being used to NYC clients. I don't necessarily want an actual number from you guys. But maybe a formula? Should I take my typical two-hour restaurant fee, and then double it? Do I just charge the same as my restaurant fee? I would think that a one-time festival in a big city, would mean the potential for a much higher fee than a typical two-hour restaurant block of strolling, right? Also, this gig involves about an hour drive for me. Any suggestions?
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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durgy Elite user Toronto 402 Posts |
An hour drive is a very long drive in my opinion...2 hours total...
and of course you should charge a lot more then a 2 hour regular restaurant gig. Perhaps double to triple your restaurant gig? But if you feelin lucky, why not 700?! heh Good luck Durgy |
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iwillfoolu Special user Upstate NY, USA 746 Posts |
I hate to ask so many questions:
1) How many people are they expecting to attend? 2) Indoors or Out (I assume outdoors)? 3) Is there a raindate? 4) How much experience do you have drawing a street crowd? Joe |
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-04-11 16:56, iwillfoolu wrote: Approximately 300, between the hours of 5-8pm (but I will be there from 5:30-7:30pm) Quote:
On 2007-04-11 16:56, iwillfoolu wrote: Outdoors Quote:
On 2007-04-11 16:56, iwillfoolu wrote: We did not discuss a raindate, but I will inquire about it when I email her a quote tonight. Thanks for the reminder. Quote:
On 2007-04-11 16:56, iwillfoolu wrote: Honestly, not much. Most of my experience is kid's shows, restaurants, and family shows. I DO have several annual events that I do, that consist of busking-type magic at one, strolling outdoor magic at another (festival in NY), and strolling magic outdoors at a Halloween event each year. So, it's not that I have NEVER done this type of thing, it's just that most of my work so far, has been kid's show with the occasional strolling gig sprinkled in here and there.
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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Michael Bilkis Special user 728 Posts |
I would definately factor in travel time. Also cost of parking if you plan to drive.
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iwillfoolu Special user Upstate NY, USA 746 Posts |
One way to look at it:
Double your one hour kids show price and tack on a little for travel. If you have to zoom along for an hour, don't forget about tolls & tickets (and delays). Another way to look at it: You could entertain each and every person that attends if you build your crowds right. 300 people x $1 or $2 = $300-600 Even if you only entertain half (a fair minimum goal) in the two hours that's really cheap for entertainment. Yet another: You could do 20 minute shows trying to gather audiences of 50. How much would you charge for 5 or 6 twenty minute shows? (Or 10-12 ten minute shows) "Uncle" Sam gets to take his share, minus insurance, minus advertising, ...etc. I can see why your friend quoted that. Especially for the weekend (you can only be at one event at a time). Don't charge more than you are comfortable quoting. I hope this was helpful. The decision is ultimately up to you though. Joe |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Danny, here is the best formula.
The idea is to keep the client happy so as to rebook them. So here is the idea. Only charge what you KNOW you can cover. Here is the point. You are relativly new to the adult magic scene, not an insult a mere fact. So you do not feel as if you are worth the $700 per hour. The client may not feel as if they are getting their best "bang for their buck" so to speak. So find a level at which the client NEVER says to themselvs, "did I really pay X for this?". Always leave them as if they feel they have gotten well more than they have paid for. Make them feel as if the value of what you provide exeeds what they pay. Give them a "bargain". I am not saying work cheap mind you, but always give value, and you will have clients who brag on you. I hope I am being clear as the concept is strange to many.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
Danny,
Pricing is, for me, still the toughest aspect of the job. Someone wiser than me once said that you'll lose just as many shows charging too little as you will charging too much. I believe that is true. I don't charge the highest fee nor the lowest for the area. I do think it's funny to hear driving an hour to be a big deal. I guess being from Chicago, I think an hour drive is the norm. You have to charge what you are comfortable with. Maybe you could get more, but so what. I have no problem looking the client in the eyes when they hand me the check. I know they got their money's worth, and I know I was paid a fair price. Good luck, and let us know how it went. Patrick |
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Allan Elite user 405 Posts |
Forget about your restaurant fee, that is for steady business every week. Depending on how strong a performer you are, charge your kids show price or somewhat higher. Add to that your travel & parking expenses & a little extra for travel time.
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Chris Capstone Regular user Tulsa, OK 107 Posts |
I just have to come out of lurking mode to say Dannydoyle is correct as usual.
For most large festival promoters the issue isn't price, it's value. If you charge $500 for a performance, give them what you feel is worth $1000. If you charge $1000 give them a show you feel is worth $2000. This, along with professionalism on and off stage will get you more work than anything else. Remember, Dannydoyle didn't say work for cheap. You must charge for your skill and experience. Think carefully about whether you can deliver the kind of professional entertainment that won't leave the client with buyer's remorse. You've also got to cover your expenses, travel, turnpike fees, gas, insurance, overnight accomodations, meals, etc... Find ways to add value to what you are already doing. For example, if you are asked to stroll at an outdoor festival, offer to bring a tent and perform shows in your tent in addition to strolling the grounds. Explain that you can use bigger props for a more impressive show with the tent. Plus, the magic show tent will give them an additional attraction on their festival grounds. Think client benefits! If there is a main stage with mostly music acts, offer to do a short stand-up act between band sets. If they have some sort of contest, offer to MC it. A magic MC can be a great added value. Sometimes I'll do a small festival that doesn't have their own sound system and allow them to use my sound system for the other acts. This is a great extra value becaue it saves them the additional cost of renting one. Again, these are just examples, you might come up with others that will work for you. Make the value exceed the price. Of course the best way to establish your value is to give an absolutely polished performance that leaves the audience talking about it and wanting more. The best advice I ever got in this business was "never enter a market until you are ready." And how do you know you are ready? If you have to ask, you're not. And now back to the land of lurking!
Chris Capstone
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iwillfoolu Special user Upstate NY, USA 746 Posts |
Danny Doyle has given some great advice.
Promise less + deliver more = repeat business = career Joe |
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Eddie Torres Special user New York City 692 Posts |
I always charge about 2/3 of what my stage show is by the hour rounded up to the nearest 50.
Eddie Ivan Torres
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TroyRoark Loyal user Springfield IL 282 Posts |
I love this topic, I get asked this all the time. Here's the scenario: Someone calls you out of the blue, "I need someone for 2 hours of walk around magic, what do you charge?"
Answer: The amount that comfortably comes out of your mouth without you saying "well um... see it depends, um..." I don't mind telling you that my stock answer is (Central Illinois economics in effect), "I charge $250 an hour with a minimum of two hours." I can say that with full confidence knowing that at the end of that time I've given them their money's worth (and then some.) And then, when your doing more work that you want to be doing, its time to start saying "I charge $300 an hour with a minimum of two hours." and so on. I'd like to hear other people's opinion on this. It's an interesting topic. |
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Magicmatt1982 Loyal user Southeren IL 295 Posts |
When thinking about pricing you should always not price of what you can get but what are you worth. That is just a thought of busniess marketing. I have all kinds of different prices because I have four different shows. From walk around ,close up, Comedy clubs, Stage. So think about not how much you can get but how much are you worth.
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derrick Inner circle I dug holes for 1044 Posts |
Make sure you get your expenses like travel, parking, water, etc., taken care of. Then the fee you are comfortable asking for -- say $400, $600 or whatever. You already know they want you for two hours so don't quote them an hourly rate of $200 or $300 an hour, which can sound pretty high to a non-professional booking person. It sometimes seems easier for the person booking you to swallow when it's not broken down to an hourly rate. Just say my fee for that type of show for that time frame is $________ . If they come back with, how about an hour then or we would like an additional hour then then quote them the minimum two hour time frame rule or give them your hourly rate.
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Some great advice on here, thanks all. I ended up sending the potential client a quote that was higher than I originally was considering, but much lower than my NYC buddy suggested. I haven't heard anything back from them, and I think I may have priced myself out of the gig. Well, I might have lost this one, but I guess I learned from it. I'm going to drop down my asking price considerably the next time I get a similiar request.
Also, since I am relatively new to strolling gigs, I want to feel totally comfortable during my gigs, and not feel like I overcharged an enormous amount of money and I have set incredibly high standards to live up to (not saying I don't always strive for excellence, but I hope you see what I'm saying).
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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TroyRoark Loyal user Springfield IL 282 Posts |
Danny, I love your attitude. Everyone who does this pro, and I mean everyone, started at a rate that was considerably lower than the majority of his "competition?". Rates go up when your confidence as a performer goes up.
My first show: I charged $35 bucks. The next show $50. I settled at $150 for a long time. Now I'm at $375 for my 45 min family show. I'm moving to $400 in September. Charge what works for you. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks. You don't have to answer to anyone but yourself and the client. |
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iwillfoolu Special user Upstate NY, USA 746 Posts |
Amen to that.
Joe |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
Rates don't just go up as your confidence goes up, but as your ability to deliver a show that is worth what you are charging does. I just got into the children's birthday party market, and having very little experience in that market under my belt, my rates are way, way lower than a good friend of mine that's a fantastic children's performer. But in the adult market I can deliver a show worth nearly 10 times the price of the children's show. I am fully confident in my material for the children, but I don't feel as if I'm worth that much due to my experience in that particular venue. So I see a difference between confidence and your self-worth. I'm sure many disagree. I don't even know if Danny would agree with me on that one.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You guys are missing the point. What are you worth to your "client"? That really is the only relevant question.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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