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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You Oughta Be In Pictures » » Impromptu Out Of This World (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tom G
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Not to show disrespect to Monte, but there are many claims given to many items sold though good hype and video cuts...

Tom
montemagic
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I will let the product speak for itself. But I appreciate everyone’s comments

As far as this concern that the spectators cannot shuffle, not only do they shuffle, but they will always remember that they shuffled. My shuffle claim is to SPELL OUT that this is completely impromptu and can use a borrowed deck of cards. When this effect is out, I will teach you about the psychology behind it, and you will see why it is so great for your spectators. Earlier in this topic you talk about impressing magicians, for me that is a completely useless motivation in life, impressing real people is all I care about. This effect does that, and it does it better for me than any other version I have seen. Mostly because I let the spectators shuffle the cards first. I will say I have not seen all versions that are out there; maybe they let you shuffle too. When you see the night’s performance, I have a feeling that you will enjoy it. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Tom G, I absolutely agree, but read my previous posts for your answer. I am not here for promotion, or to sell, and assure you that the entire evening’s performance will be available to you prior to purchase. I also do not wear eye liner and use tiger decks. Following an email, I may be able to discuss this more in depth the Secret Sessions.
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Thomas Wayne
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Your initial (and subsequent) posts are merely an attempt to hype a mostly uninspired and unoriginal handling of an old classic that you didn't invent.

As for your claim of NOT caring if you impress magicians - of course you care. Otherwise, why would you be on a magicians’ forum trying to hype and pre-sell instructional material using a deceptive description and a carefully edited video?

And finally, I'm just stating obvious facts and as you admit - you obviously haven't done a lot of research into the effect you're trying to re-package. There are many versions of OOTW that include allowing the spectators to shuffle the deck, and all except the few gaffed versions can use any deck.

In fact, if we are allowed to use the same editing in our live performances that you are using in your hype video, ALL versions of OOTW meet this criteria, which you apparently consider so groundbreaking:

"Will you please shuffle this borrowed deck, sir? Look, everyone, he’s shuffling the deck I just borrowed! Thank you. Now, if you'll excuse me for a moment, I just need to turn my back [with the deck] so I can... um... um… channel the psychic energy... yeah, that's it! Alright, I'm done; ROLL CAMERA. Okay, this…this… this is a test… this is a test of your instincts…” lol

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
montemagic
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I still think you'll like it.
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Tom G
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Needless to say, I purchased an earlier version promising the same conditions. The video demo looked great, but the reality of it was much different.. If I see good reviews and it's as demo'ed/advertised, I'll certainly buy it. Just not going to be one of the first to jump.

Tom
ted french
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I currently use a ootw that has the cards spread to show they are mixed they can shuffle too if they like, turned over then handed to the spectator to deal two piles. the whole effect takes less than 2 minutes and there is no changing the order of how you deal. So Montes claims are not outrageous and if they are true they are worth the investment.
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Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2007-04-30 11:26, ted french wrote:
I currently use a ootw that has the cards spread to show they are mixed they can shuffle too if they like, turned over then handed to the spectator to deal two piles. the whole effect takes less than 2 minutes and there is no changing the order of how you deal. So Montes claims are not outrageous and if they are true they are worth the investment.


Interesting. Not, however, what we see on the montemagic demo video, which is actually what's being discussed here.

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
ted french
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You seem very angry about a card trick. I understand your frustration though if I had all the money back I've spent on dishonest hype I would be a much more optimistic about product claims too. With my last post I meant to emphasize the power of ootw with a full shuffled deck of cards, instead it came across like I was bragging
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Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2007-04-30 15:54, ted french wrote:
You seem very angry about a card trick. [...]


No idea what you base THAT shot on, but I sincerely recommend you avoid mentalism, or anything that involves reading people - lol

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
ted french
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Tw 1 tf 0 good one
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scorch
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Quote:
On 2007-04-28 19:36, montemagic wrote:
Lorayne only uses a portion of the deck, only about 20 cards.


Monte, I find it rather odd (and somewhat suspicious) that you are touting a FASDIU effect, yet in your demo clip you don't show a spectator shuffle. The performance that you do is not at all different from the standard stacked versions. I mean, if you're going to claim something rather important about your effect, don't you think it would make sense to actually show that feature in your demo of it? Why did you omit the only thing of interest that you are claiming, which in this case would be a spec shuffle?

Added to that curious ommission in your demo, you make an ignorant claim regarded the Lorayne Impromptu Out of This World. Actually you can do as many or as few cards as you want in his version. And actually, the fact that you go through less than the full deck in his impromptu version is an asset, not a liability. The original effect infamously suffers from a problem in pacing. It is too long, and your supposedly impromptu version doesn't solve that.
MagicMarker
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Doesn't the name "out of this SLOPPY world" tell people how the deck is
arranged back into OOTW order?

I have nothing against montemagic, but I do think there are too many instant download versions of OOTW with questionable additional value. The version we see on the video is EXACTLY the same as the original out of this world. Little bits about going back to a card that the spectator paused on and showing they got it wrong are interesting, but not interesting enough to warrent a newly marketed version.

If the only thing we missed before the video started rolling is a slop shuffle then that also doesn't warrant a newly marketed version.

I'd be a lot happier if more magicians would share ideas like this for free.

We need a cull of marketed magic and a re-examination of the real value of some of the effects and methods that are out there.

I think if there was more sharing of information and less attempts to sell every little idea we'd all benefit. I don't know how much cash someone would expect to earn from a variation of OOTW, but it's unlikely to be a huge amount.

Just my opinion, no offence intended to anyone, and I could be completely wrong about the real content of montemagic's download.

-Rd
montemagic
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Quote:
On 2007-05-06 11:10, scorch wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-04-28 19:36, montemagic wrote:
Lorayne only uses a portion of the deck, only about 20 cards.


Monte, I find it rather odd (and somewhat suspicious) that you are touting a FASDIU effect, yet in your demo clip you don't show a spectator shuffle. The performance that you do is not at all different from the standard stacked versions. I mean, if you're going to claim something rather important about your effect, don't you think it would make sense to actually show that feature in your demo of it? Why did you omit the only thing of interest that you are claiming, which in this case would be a spec shuffle?

Added to that curious ommission in your demo, you make an ignorant claim regarded the Lorayne Impromptu Out of This World. Actually you can do as many or as few cards as you want in his version. And actually, the fact that you go through less than the full deck in his impromptu version is an asset, not a liability. The original effect infamously suffers from a problem in pacing. It is too long, and your supposedly impromptu version doesn't solve that.


Perhaps you should read the entire topic prior to responding. In regards to my ignorance over Loraynes version, "Lorayne only uses a portion of the deck, only about 20 cards." That is a direct quote from Mr. Lorayne himself. No apologies needed.

and to MagicMarker:
Thank you for being the first person to actually read my original post, and use your brain. I expected this from the get-go, but you are the first person to actually think before responding. Thank you. In regards to your hating Instant downloads, I understand, but sharing an effect along with methods on the Café is one thing, but there is a much bigger world of magicians out there. If I were to post this effect on my website complete with instructions, I would be attacked for giving away secrets. This effect is not original to me, but I love performing it and I am happy to share it with other magicians that are unfamiliar with it.
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scorch
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[quote]On 2007-05-06 11:45, montemagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-05-06 11:10, scorch wrote:
Quote:

Monte, I find it rather odd (and somewhat suspicious) that you are touting a FASDIU effect, yet in your demo clip you don't show a spectator shuffle.


Perhaps you should read the entire topic prior to responding.


I did read the entire topic. Where did you address the problem of your promising a FASDIU effect yet failing to show it as a FASDIU in the demo? I missed that post the first time through the thread, and even re-reading it again, I don't see any justification for such a glaring omission. Perhaps you could explain the omission more clearly, other than merely to say to watch the demo when it comes out, because it hasn't come out. (until then most of us have more sense than to take an unknown magician at their word for promising such a quantum leap of an improvement on a classic effect. It happens all the time - e.g. Mr. Kam and his Toibox - and the reality rarely measures up to the hype).

After all, if you're merely doing a red-black cull or slop shuffle of some sort (omitted in the demo), few of us would pay money for that or consider it to be a truly FASDIU effect, or even any kind of improvement on the original Curry effect. Honestly, I hope that the explanation isn't as banal as that. Hopefully I am way off base in these suspicions, and if you think I won't be disappointed when the full demo is available, I would be willing to suspend judgment until I can see the whole thing from spectator shuffle until where this demo started. But next time, please do wait until the entire demo is available before you tout it to the membership of the Café.
MagicMarker
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Hi Monte,

thanks for responsing graciously to my post, that's often not the case.

Just to clear up I don't hate instant downloads, I've bought a few, more so when I started than recently because when I started I didn't have access to magic stores or magic clubs, so I couldn't tell what were the good books. Back then an instant download of a full trick that I knew I'd use for a couple of bucks was better than perhaps 20 or 30 bucks for a book that might or might not have effects I'd like.

Of course in retrospect the instant downloads seem like pretty poor value compared to some of the books and DVD's I've gone on to acquire.

I understand your concern about being attacked if you made your method available for free from your website, and that's not what I'd suggest.

I think publish it, give it to people on the Café, perhaps in the secret sessions area. I think the goodwill from that will pay you more in the long run that any money you'll make. And if more magicians took the same approach you'd be repaid tenfold in other methods and ideas received.

I understand the urge to publish and sell. I came up with a nifty little principle a while back which as best as I can figure is original. I've typed it up in a manuscript and have added some effects to the manuscript. I think it's as good as many ebooks that I've seen for sale. So should I sell it?

I don't think so. The fact is it's as good or better than ebooks that I don't think should be for sale. I think when I finally finish with it I'll be making it available for free to people with a genuine interest, rather than trying to sell it. When you charge for something I think it raises the bar of what you should be providing and I think that bar is unfortunately getting way too low in magic.

Still, whatever you decide to do, well done on some nice subtleties in the performance. Best of luck with it.

-Rd
Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2007-05-06 11:45, montemagic wrote:
[...]
and to MagicMarker:
Thank you for being the first person to actually read my original post, and use your brain. [...]



Words that could ONLY come a pompous, self-centered punk.

The fact that you don't like what several of us have to say - and that our well informed opinions threaten to disrupt your potential for squeezing cash out of unsuspecting victims - is no reason to cast aspersions at your critics, sonny boy.

I (for one) read your original post - that's where I found your deceptive sales pitch, after all - and I used my brain to analyze its content. In fact, I used my brain well enough to read through your over-hyped BS. You've created nothing new here, and you have nothing new to offer the magic marketplace. As far as I'm concerned, I pity anyone naive enough to pay you for a download of a trick you have no right to sell in the first place.

Quote:
On 2007-05-06 11:45, montemagic wrote:

This effect is not original to me, but I love performing it and I am happy to share it with other magicians that are unfamiliar with it.



Of course You're "happy to share it"... especially if it PUTS MONEY IN YOUR POCKET! But thank you for admitting that the effect is not original to you. Now do the right thing and forget the idea of selling other people's work on the internet. And go tell your mother about the mischief you've been up to; I'm sure she'll know how to deal with you.

Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2007-05-06 14:37, scorch wrote:
[...]
After all, if you're merely doing a red-black cull or slop shuffle of some sort (omitted in the demo), few of us would pay money for that or consider it to be a truly FASDIU effect, or even any kind of improvement on the original Curry effect. Honestly, I hope that the explanation isn't as banal as that. Hopefully I am way off base in these suspicions, and if you think I won't be disappointed when the full demo is available, I would be willing to suspend judgment until I can see the whole thing from spectator shuffle until where this demo started. But next time, please do wait until the entire demo is available before you tout it to the membership of the Café.



Scorch,

I've seen the entire “demo” video, via a private link Monte sent me. Sadly, you have described perfectly the entire technique used. The FASDIU principle is not employed, and virtually any minimally knowledgeable magician (even most beginners, IMO) will immediately understand how the slop shuffle/cull is accomplished, and therefore the entire trick itself.

In fact, I would daresay that if Monte does post this full demo on the Internet, virtually everyone watching will have learned all there is know about the technique, and he will sell zero downloads. It is absolutely that obvious.

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
montemagic
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I am selling this to people that do not already perform it. If you don't know the method, you don't know the secret. In regards to thanking him for reading my original post was for comprehending the title and its meaning. You seem to think that just because you know the method for the effect, that every other magician in the world does. Heckle me all you want, I know how to deal with people like you. You have threatened to beat me, called me names, and told me how greedy I am. Funny how big and bad people can be from the safety of their computers. I am not impressed, grow up, and have some fun. If you want to continue to threaten me, do me a favor and do it in person. I am not going to continue to fulfill what seems to be the only joy in your life, and that is arguing about how much you know and how great you are. I think people will enjoy it, and if they don't they don’t. When all is said and done you will still need a hug.

Bye.
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Thomas Wayne
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montemagic wrote
Quote:
"I am selling this to people that do not already perform it. If you don't know the method, you don't know the secret. [...]



Ya know, Monte, you just don't get it.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SELL THIS EFFECT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! THE SECRET IS NOT YOURS TO SELL.

Did I say that loud enough for you to hear?

What you’re trying to do is no different than if you were to record yourself performing some popular music, and then sell homemade CDs to "people who hadn't heard it yet" [without paying royalties to the writer]. There is no part of this demo performance video that is original with you, except maybe for the inane patter. Other magicians created every bit of what you hope to sell, most of it long before you ever picked up a deck of cards.

Your attitude and behavior seem questionable on many levels. You started out with deceptive hype, you're re-packaging other magicians' intellectual property, and you're justifying it all by saying that you're only selling it to people who "don't already know the secret" - like they're sheep waiting to be sheared... I guess by YOU.

I can't say it any clearer than that. Maybe you don't care if what you're doing is wrong - but it is wrong, and that's the problem.

And, on a separate note, I would like to address your claim that I’ve “threatened to beat” you. Shame on you for that lie. Within private messages between you and me, you complained about my negative comments regarding your re-packaging of other people's material. I told you the proper research steps to take, and that - because you hadn't bothered to do so - "you probably deserve to get publicly smacked around a little for your arrogance". Clearly, in the context of the entire message, anyone with even a minimal brain function would understand that was metaphorically speaking. The fact that you distort that NOW, to claim I “threatened” you, is a perfect example of your dishonesty.

You really need to check yourself.


TW
(PS: As for a hug, I think I'll pass thanks. It would take me much too long to wash the scum off afterwards, I'm afraid.)
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
edh
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Quote:
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SELL THIS EFFECT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! THE SECRET IS NOT YOURS TO SELL.


It has been posted here that Twisted Sisters and Ultimate Monte have been around for some time before Mr Bannon and Mr. Skinner came up with these ideas.

Would you say the same to them?

BTW way look at Transpo Kings by Simon Lovell. What would you say to him?

I'm not defending montemagic. I have not been privy to his demo so I cannot make an informed opinion. I'm just curious about your opinon of these effects.
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