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Nongard1
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The biggest problem here is that if I am going to post, I should learn to type! Honestly, I can spell extreme! LOL
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Nongard1
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Magic_mind....
I am a provider of Florida hypnosis training. The law you state applies to THERAPEUTIC hypnosis performed by a LICESNED mental health professional NOT a stage performance. The Florida law is complex but does NOT apply to stage performances, or non-therapeutic hypnosis (NGH standards for non-therapeutic hypnosis).

Mota- again, I am a provider of Texas approved CEUs for mental health professionals. There is NO law saying a stage hypotist must have a degree...
and although the psychology board is territorial in its belief only licensed mental health professionals can do hypnosis, that would require MORE than a bachelors degree, and like Danny said, it is NOT going to be enforced in regards to stage hypnotism, becasue stage hypnotism in doesn't claim a therapeutic value not is stage hypnosis treating psychopathology. And so the psych board has no jurisdiction in this mattter.
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Lee Darrow
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Quote:
On 2007-05-21 11:38, Dannydoyle wrote:
Problems with the law are not really an issue any more in the US.


BZZZZTT!!!

Wrong-O, Danny.

Indiana. State of. No demonstrations of hypnosis shall be given to any group of people numbering greater than three under penalty of law as a felony.

The. Whole. State.

Sorry to disagree, but I called the State of Indiana's Attorney General's office on that one to verify as I didn't believe the initial reports, either. And the law has survived two court challenges, so far.

So, people, I would suggest that you do NOT book stage hypnosis shows in the Hoosier State.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
mota
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Nongard is right. A closer reading does show only hypnotism practiced in a therapy-type of situation is regulated in Texas. A grade-school drop-out can practice stage hypnotism in Texas.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2007-05-25 11:07, Lee Darrow wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-05-21 11:38, Dannydoyle wrote:
Problems with the law are not really an issue any more in the US.


BZZZZTT!!!

Wrong-O, Danny.

Indiana. State of. No demonstrations of hypnosis shall be given to any group of people numbering greater than three under penalty of law as a felony.

The. Whole. State.

Sorry to disagree, but I called the State of Indiana's Attorney General's office on that one to verify as I didn't believe the initial reports, either. And the law has survived two court challenges, so far.

So, people, I would suggest that you do NOT book stage hypnosis shows in the Hoosier State.

Lee Darrow, C.H.


Quick someone tell Raven that the 2 months he spends at the 2 Funny Bones in Indiana will not be happening.

Tell any college circuit hypnotist to stop working.

Or maybe it isn't such a big problem.

As I said the laws exist, but are they enforced?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Lee Darrow
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According to the Indiana Department of Professional Standards, or whatever they're calling themselves this week AND the Indiana Attorney General's Office, and I quote:

"ANY infraction of this statute will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law."

And that is as of last week.

They may get booked. They may perform, but the minute someone calls the cops, they're going to jail according to the AG's office.

Ignorance of the law, as we both know, is NO excuse when you get up in front of a judge. And a stupid law is still a LAW, regardless of how stupid it may be.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
Dannydoyle
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I am asking for proof of procecution.

Maybe you don't know this but if you call the AG of ANYWHERE they claim to procecute to the fullest extent of the law, NO MATTER WHAT THE LAW. It is the party line. Heck it is their JOB by definition!

They say that of the J walking laws, the spitting on the street, the littering laws, and we both know full well they are NOT enforced.

I would LOVE to see a procecution for something that many claim dosn't even exist, it would be hilarious, and a HUGE waste of time.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Nongard1
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Indiana has these laws on the books. Like Lee, I wouldnt try UNLESS I was licensed as a mental health professional, becasue I am sure that the psychologists behind this worthless legistation created an exemption for licensed professionals.
Interesting though, I have a friend in that state. He claims the law is getting sunsetted becasue the law specifies one hav 500 hours of training from a state approved school to do hypnosis, but the sate has NO 500 school offering hypnosis training. So it truely is a worthless law. Not only does it fly in the face of logic and truth about hypnosis but also there is no provision for compliance.
Sounds to me it was written by some psychologist who was buddies with a state senator or by someone who owned a state school then went out of business...
Anyway, hope my friend is correct and that it gets sunsetted.
NGH keeps track of all state lwas, I also try to keep up so I can provide accurate into to my clients, but NGH is usually on top of things...
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Dannydoyle
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Like I was getting at, there has not been a sucessfull procecution to my knowlege.

I may have missed one, so let me know.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Woodfield
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Banned in Indiana!
Come see what all the fuss is about.


Sounds like a good publicity angle.

Woodfield
RSD
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I challenge someone to go to do it, and intiate prosecution against yourself. What a great promo!

Of course I am joking...sort of.
rinpoche
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If you get arrested you could always argue that hypnosis doesn't really exist.

It's funny that in the law, definition is very important. I'd like to see if they have a definition for hypnosis on the books. What if you did a progressive relaxation demo, or a psychological suggestibility demo?
Lee Darrow
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Quote:
On 2007-05-23 18:46, Nongard1 wrote:
My opinion is that almost every learning process starts with self awareness and books or reading. In the past in the form of books, in the present more and more often through DVD. Books and DVD's are usually the starting point for learning, people generally move on to mentoring or classes, or a commbination if they are serious about learning. Learning is a lifelong process, I still take hypnosis classes (NGH conventions) and still buy books and DVD's from others to facilitate my learning in both clinical and stage hypnotism.
If we follow Lees logic we should STOP the presses and no longer publish the works of Ormond McGill, or Milton Erickson becasue someone might learn from a book? We should take learning DVD's off the market, and just all go to class together? Makes no sense to me.


Sorry to have taken so long to respond to this but, frankly, you seem to be seriously mistaken in interpreting what I have stated. These media may be great introductions to the field, but many people are trying to use them in place of primary instruction - and many of these media programs are being actively marketed that way and, to be honest, I take exception with that model of teaching - at the beginner's level, specifically.

Here's why:

For a BEGINNER, for someone who is going to actually go out and perform shows, for the sake of safety and for the sake of their volunteers (not to mention for insurance requirements, which are becoming MUCH more stringent these days, but that's another thread) - I am a strong advocate of classroom education as the primary learning modality.

As I stated, neither a dvd nor a book can give a student the necessary feedback on their technique that can make or break their ability to successfully induce and manage the hypnotic state in a volunteer whom they have just met and with whom they hae not had even the most perfunctory conversation.

Until a base level of understanding and education has been achieved, the neophyte hypnotist should do their utmost to seek out and attend a good CLASS on hypnosis so that they can be exposed to and get the training in the nuances of the hypnotic process including things like vocal tonality and pronunciation (a dvd is NOT going to give someone fedback on how fast they might be talking or that they are mispronouncing every other word, for instance!), abreactions (I have yet to see a dvd even address that issue except in the most perfunctory manner and very few books even discuss the handling of unexpected reactions, either), pacing, leading, stage movement, posture, diction and so many more things that can ONLY be dealt with in a personalized insructional setting.

However, this is NOT to say that we should abandon publications, dvds or even videotapes or webinars and it's rather illogical to imply that I would even consider such a thing, given my background as a performer and educator.

But books and video materials should be used for what they were intended and designed to be - SUPPLIMENTAL educational materials - not primary instructional programs at the beginner's level. And I stress - at the beginner's level...!

At the more advanced levels, these media are certainly more appropriate - and I readily concede that fact - but at the beginner's level nothing, and I canot stress this too strongly, nothing can replace the class room or one-on-one mentoring styles of instruction.

The feedback to the student with regards to their technique is as necessary as that of a vocal coach's to a novice singer, in compaison.

Yes, dvd and literary sources are great for the neophyte to garner some initial insight to the field, but to imply that these two media, by themselves, either singly or even coupled as a combined program is any substitute for a classroom program is simply NOT going to be as viable - or as safe - an approach to learning hypnosis (stage OR therapeutic) as a classroom-based program of learning.

And THAThas been my stance on this issue from the get-go.

I hope that this has cleared up any confusion about where I'm coming from on this, especially for the other readers out there

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
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