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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts 
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I always wondered if "Cups and Balls" the trick might have developed as a way to show how someone could control the actions of the ball in the Egyptian game shown on the tomb.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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There once was a guy doing a game with a little ball and three cups.
He would get people to bet on where the ball was. ... Then the local cop came over and said there was no chance for anyone to win. So he showed the cop that it was a game and there really was a ball under each cup. Then he asked the cop, okay, which one has the lemon?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-05-14 10:11, mandrake01 wrote: But the tomb doesn't show any balls or even any 'action' aside from two guys lifting what everyone speculates is two cups. The image is grouped with several other Egyptian game pictures which is why it is thought to be some sort of game. But I see absolutely no connection to cups and balls. -todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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MagiUlysses Special user Kansas City 504 Posts
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Greetings and Salutations,
Right. Every reference I've seen, read, or heard, has noted that some "say" the men are playing the cups and balls but add that there are only two cups and no balls, and usually mention that the men may be bakers or playing a game, hence that portion of my patter. Joe Zeman aka The Mage Ulysses |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-05-14 10:11, mandrake01 wrote: There is no evidence that it is, in fact, a game. It may be bakers molding bread. I have an Egyptologist working on a translation of the inscription. The inscription shown in the Christopher book is only a tiny part of what is actually associated with the painting.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-05-14 12:07, lint wrote: I agree. In fact, they mentioned there was another wall where "performance" events were being represented. And I thought there were four cups? I think it's been pretty well established that this was some kind of game being played, <my> point is, is it possible that the C&Bs developed out of this game and the game itself has been long since forgotten? I wouldn't know how to verify that or even if it has validity, I just wondered.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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If you look at the wall where the bakers are molding bread you will see it is all agricultural and food related imagery, no games, not magic.
I think Christopher should have been "called" for continuing the misinformation.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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Bob Read's collection of C&B art/information IS BEING WORKED on for publication.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Joe Howard Loyal user The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts 204 Posts
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Quote:
Bob Read's collection of C&B art/information IS BEING WORKED on for publication. That's great news !!! JH |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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As I said, and as Pete verified, there is NO evidence that it is a game. That's why I am having an Egyptologist translate the entire inscription. The often given translation of "up from below," doesn't make any sense as a game. It only makes sense as a fragment.
Pete, that is wonderful news about the Bob Read book.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts
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Great news that the Bob Read book is in the works. What a treasure that will be!
Fortasse |
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts
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Yeah Kaufman told me it was coming too, but not for a year or two. Not sure who has taken over the rings on it.
about time you show your face around here again Fortasse! -todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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I have more information; however, since nobody has made an official announcement yet, let me wait to say anything specific about it.
If my information is correct, the publisher is one who has done some really important historical work.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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MagiUlysses Special user Kansas City 504 Posts
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Greetings and Salutations,
Great news! I've started saving my pennies, shekels, and pesos! If it's "that" publisher, Bill, I'd better start storing up duckets like a squirrel facing a long, hard winter, but it'll certainly be worth it. Please keep up posted, and to the powers that be, consider this a pre-order. Joe Zeman aka The Mage Ulysses |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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This publisher is the right one for this kind of book. Bob would have been proud.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts
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So my question:
Does Ricky Jay still reference Beni-Hassan in his cups and balls routine, since all of this furtive "vetting" has been done? -R Quote:
On 2007-05-15 22:12, fortasse wrote: I'll simply believe that one when I see it. I understand that publishing of this book is also portrayed on the walls at Beni Hassan. |
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-05-28 12:19, Ron Giesecke wrote: At least Ricky has the right idea by saying he doesn't believe it represents the cups & balls. I still don't see a reason to even bring it up though. -todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts
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In his 1994 "52 Assistants" broadcast, he does not register any doubt on the matter. That was my question: Has he since altered his routine to reflect this non-controversy?
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts
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From Ricky Jay's 52 Assistants broadcast:
"...There are many people that will tell you that it is the oldest effect in the history of magic. That on the tombs of the king Benni Hassan of ancient Egypt there are representations of Nile magicians doing the cups and balls. I'm not one of those people. I will tell you that the game was known to Greeks and Romans..." So, even during his 52 assistants run, he was refuting it, albeit cheekily. -todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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I have gotten word from some people on the inside that the Bob Read book is definitely in the works. The editor is editing, the photos have been finished, and the publisher, who specializes in magic art books is getting ready to put it to press.
It will not be cheap. Think Albo or Klosterman, price-wise.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Posted: May 14, 2007 02:11 pm 
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