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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Fast and Loose or, Three Shell Game? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Logan Five
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I am sort of looking for a closer to end a gambling demonstration with cards. In the past I have got a lot a great audience reaction to Fast and Loose ( the Marc De Souza Chain Gang routine with the chain that was included in the viedo ) but, at the end of many performances people will come up to me afterwards and tell me.." I could have chose either end and the chain will always come up loose? Right? ".

So, I am torn between these two routines for a closer. The truth is that I have never done the three shell game in front of an audience. I have Sal Piacente's & Phil Cass's dvd on the shell game so I have a lot of go on..

but which would you close with and why?...

thanks in advance!
Self concept is destiny..
Josh Riel
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of hell
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I like the Shells, but prefer the Monte. Never did the Fast and Loose.

Some folk are always quick to assume they never had a chance. Although this deplorable mindset is common, I would not allow it to decide my game. Do what you enjoy and when someone comes up to you and infers that you are not entirely honest, pick their pocket. It would pretty much be their fault anyway.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
MagicSanta
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Okay! I'll jump in since you are a bay area person. Fast and Loose is the routine put out by School for Scoundrels using the Endless Chain. That being said you are need to get the Notes on Fast and loose. I know you don't have it because if you did you would know that there is a way to do it where you show the spectators that dare to challenge you that they are.....wrong. That one component, as you noted, took the endless chain to a higher level. Imagine if you will you do your routine and a spec says to you that line about either one coming up loose. You look at them with contempt and do the lay out and have them pick a loop. You then show them that while they picked the wrong one the other will indeed catch their finger! This can be done over and over. I have the written notes and I believe they have the same info in DVD format now.

The reason I would close with the fast and loose routine, or your routine with the endless chain, (same thing just one is a routine the other the name for the item) is if you do a monte routine the shells are pretty close to that. Same conciept at least. If you do the chain it is different and you can say "I want to close with one of the oldest games in gambling...before cards...you had...." pull out the chain.
gaddy
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Agent of Chaos
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My opinion (not having performed "fast and loose", but only knowing how to do it...) is that fast and loose is easier to perform, but the shells is much more compelling to the audience. Also, it seems to me that the shells have more "business" about them- IE there is more you can do with them.

Also, I'd do the shells because I have some nice scarab shaped shells!
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Dave V
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I do Fast and Loose, but I wouldn't close with it. Although Whit's DVD and notes on the subject gives you plenty to work with, For me, it's an ongoing thing with no real ending. It works great this way in a Trade Show environment.

If you want to get serious about shells, check out Whit Haydn's DVD on the Shell Game. If you just want to do a routine that has a good "closer" get Bob Kohler's "Golden Shells" video (VHS, not on DVD) This is essentially the routine Whit uses.

I'd justify it after they lost repeatedly with whatever your gambling card routine is, by suggesting that cards aren't their game so you offer to simplify the odds down to 1 in 3. (1 in 2 if you do Fast and Loose) and take it from there.
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MagicSanta
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Listen to Dave.....
DStachowiak
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There is a "fair" way to lay the chain. If faced with a wise one, just lay the chain fairly and demonstrate the "fast" end of the lay. In fact point them to it.
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Dave V
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Yes, the "proof" is absolutely necessary in order for this to work. If they're not 100% convinced that it's fair it simply won't work. If you come up with someone stubborn let them stand aside while you're explaining and work with someone else. I offer to stop at any time to show them which one holds. With Whit's work and a convincer by Lee Earle this is easily done. Of course, this destroys all evidence as I have to throw the chain again... If someone calls you on that, just smile your best con man smile and keep going. They may not want to admit it (some people hate to be fooled) but in their head they'll think they're "in the know" and be entertained in spite of themselves.
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Logan Five
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Quote:
On 2007-05-19 11:57, Dave VanVranken wrote:
Yes, the "proof" is absolutely necessary in order for this to work. If they're not 100% convinced that it's fair it simply won't work. "


I totally agree with that. In the De Souza routine you do in fact show that the chain is fast three times during the whole routine. His routine does have a nice and elegant flow to it, but I am not thrilled with how the routine ends..i.e like you said " it's a ongoing thing with no real ending " .

As for the shells I went ahead and ordered the Bob Kohlar tape/vhs. Looking to end with a " punch " ending. On the Phil Cass dvd he ends with using two shells one covered with a plastic box that covers the shell with the pea.. and the other shell is covered with a shot glass. Then the pea travels from the one under the box to the one under the shot glass.

MagicSanta..your right I do not have the SFS notes on Fast and Loose..that will be my next project after going over the Bob Kohlar tape. Thanks for pointing that out.

Thanks a lot you guys..that was great advice.

Rick~
Self concept is destiny..
Dave V
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If you haven't seen it yet, go to http://www.scoundrelsphotos.com and browse the two video sections. You'll find the Shell Game, Fast and Loose, 3 Card Monte there and a lot more. You'll find clips of these games from old movies, plus many sample clips from the School for Scoundrels DVDs.

If you want a magic style ending for the chain, check out Chef Anton's "Drop Off Knot" video clip, also on the site.
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SeaDawg
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The Lunatic Fringe
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With the right story, build up & proofs Fast & Loose is a great piece of business that you can have a lot of fun with. The SFS dvd is well worth the money.
Crazy people take the psycho-path thru the forest...
Michael Bilkis
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I agree with Dave. I perform the shell game in my formal show. I've done Fast and Loose in a less formal setting. You gotta show there is a way to win.

Michael
Logan Five
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Just a quick note here.. I bought the Kohlar video Golden Shells's and I love it. He doesn't teach you how to get out of a jam if the spectator picks the right one however. The Piacente and Cass video's do that. But Bob Kohlar has a very nice shell game routine. I also like his " test " at the beginning of the routine.
Self concept is destiny..
tian_ci
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Hey guys, I kind of have a stupid fast and loose question. I'm thinking about getting the SFS dvd on it, but is there a chain that is cheaper than the one on SFS site ($70!) or can I use a rope!
thanks!
matt
MagicSanta
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A rope wouldn't be a good idea. You can use any chain (rope isn't as flexible nor does it mask strands like chain) if the links are small and close together. I've done it with the chains that have lil' balls but they can roll a bit and that could be bad.

That being said I have the SFS chain because the way it is made, the french links, make it very hard for someone to try to follow patterns.
rbattle
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Proofs are required to do a good fast and loose routine. With the right audience you can have a lot of fun controlling who wins primarily with psychological methods. It is also much easier to carry around as an impromtu piece. After all a lot of us wear a necklace and few carry walnut shells and peas.

Robert
Mr.Crebar
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The Shell Game is certainly a more compelling game from my experience. I love when I performing and the adults actually shove the little ones out of the way to play.
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