I saw this thread at "The Sidewalk Shuffle" and was wondering what people think about your performances being video taped at a private party. I'm sure this must come up often. How do you handle it?

I'm wondering the same thing about taking pictures in a restaurant...need to get permission. I'll try that one tonight.

Best,
Steve

Whether you allow taping or not should should be a stipulation in your agreement/contract.

Also if you tape using their customers be sure to get customers premission

I would say no taping. Do that at home, unless you're making a DVD, then get permission from everyone and waivers. If they're the ones doing the taping, have them stop. You should make it clear from the beginning with the restaurant that taping will not be allowed by anyone (I agree with Jaz).

This may step on some toes...

If you don't already know, I work in a large family entertainment complex... much like a Chuck E. Cheese but without the animatronics and giant health-code-violating rat, and this place hosts thousands of kids' birthday parties per year.

The issue here is that some parents will record their kid's ENTIRE stay, including the portion in which I perform.
I usually don't mind, but last week a Dad came up to me as he was watching a playback from the show, and told me, "Oh this is great! My brother does this for a living too and he'll LOVE to see your show!"

To me, that screams inevitable piracy.
There are no current regulations to pictures or video.
Normally, I don't mind being in pictures or even being recorded, but all of this footage of me is going out into the world without my permission.

Anyone have any ideas on some policy changes I can pitch to the boss?

(Background: I am the first and only performing entertainer at this place, so anything I suggest will probably be accepted "as law.")

Aaron, that is EXACTLY why there should be no taping of your performances. The policy should be: VIDEO TAPING IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED OF THE MAGICIAN'S PERFORMANCES.

That should do it.

:) Kaylan

!!
Splendid. Thanks Kaylan.

Give me a break!

I encouage people to video me. Very often at shows, people will ask me if they can video. I always say "Of course, and send it out to everyone you know."

How can it be a bad thing that someone else might see your performance? Is your stuff so original that you don't want anyone stealing it? What if your stuff is so good, someone might see it and want to book you.

People don't show off videos unless they are really good, or really bad. If you are worried about being really bad, then maybe it's not time to be doing this out professionally yet. But if you perform really well, and people want to show their friends, where is the problem in that?

Unless you are doing the taping, it's not your responsiblity to get permission from people to be recorded. It's your job to do a good job.

Besides, do you really want to tell mom & dad that they can't video Johnny's 5th birthday party?

The fact that it's a birthday party is my only holdback in deciding whether or not to allow videotaping.

My contention about taping in the first place is, as I mentioned before, parts of my act being stolen. Because honestly, I do have some original pieces. Not the props, obviously, but the routines and the lines that I've honed for a number of years are fairly precious to me.
It really makes you mad when you see someone else doing your routines, bit-for-bit and word-for-word (without the flair you'd normally do it with). Sure, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but downright plagiarism is terrible, especially when you can't prove that you came up with the material in the first place.

.: lofty sigh :.

I doubt that people are coming in to the restaraunt recording your show with the intention of stealing your material.

I don't know when performers like us started thinking the world (or other magicians) is out to get us. It's not.

Think about it this way: What sells the show better, a business card, or a video of your show?

TroyRoark, you make a good point, but there are some people out there who are out to copy you...and there are also people out there who want to have a video of you performing so they can see how your tricks are done (instant replay), AND there are people out there who think that having a video of you performing will suffice as opposed to watching you in their living room. The video vs. business card argument can go either way. Are people really going to offer a video to someone to watch to see if they like the magi...or will they just ask how he was? Probably the latter.

BOTTOM LINE...if you don't mind people taping you, then let them. It's up to you.

BUT...If you've worked for years to put together a killer show, how do you know what's going to happen to Johnny's 9th birthday party video tape? If I put years into a show, I would want to protect it - like an investment. But that's just me, and I don't think that's being overly paranoid (just a little bit).

:) Kaylan

Some states have very strict laws about the commercial use of ANYONE's image without a proper modelling release. Check with an entertainment lawyer regarding this issue before you do ANY such taping of your shows.

In many states a "Video release" where the person appears on tape, stating their name, age and their permission to appear on video is enough, but, in some states, this is not sufficient and can lead to serious problems if someone decides to get legal on your backside.

Get an entertainment lawyer to explain the rules to you for your state and for ANY state that you will be appearing in.

Word to the wise.

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Legal advice from a Darrow...I would accept it as gospel. Thanks Lee. My primary concern was videotaping of the performance by the host or their guests.

I currently work a restaurant and video tape there for my business. Legally if you're recording yourself performing you need to make up and have the owner of the establishment sign whats called a location release form. If you're not on the property and the property is in the film you don't need a location release form as long as the footage clearly shows youre not actually on the property. As far as your spectators go you need an appearance or likeness release form which needs to be signed by all spectators performed to. If you're filming someone under the age of 18 their parent or guardian needs to sign one for them. If youre filming a crowd most of the time you don't need a release form, unless you single someone out of the crowd in the video.

Also a good way around it is having a general release form placed on the door or outside of the establishment that says by entering you allow so and so to videotape and use your image at their discretion.

As far as letting others tape you, I don't find anything personally wrong with it as long as its just a personal camcorder but if it is commercial, like someone going to sell the footage then you probably don't want to agree to it without a cut for yourself in the profit. Unless of course its like a news crew or something and you want to get free advertisement of your magical skill. check out currenttv.com. They are a good resource for videography and they have sample release forms if you need to type some up for yourself. Hope this helps.

Bryan

Laws on the use of a person's image vary widely from state to state, there is no federal law, that I am aware of, that is an overriding one on this topic (but I am NOT an attorney, nor do I play one on radio). But a video of someone saying that they approve of their use on the video is good. FINDING it if you need it can be a problem, however, unless you have some sort of a video-image database program that you can use.

Again, my advice, and the advice from my attorney, is to chech with an attorney in the state(s) that you perform in and follow THEIR rules on the use of videotaped images tht were taken on private property and that will be used for personal, promotional use.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.H.

You never know when someone is not out with his wife...Howard