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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
This thread has turned mean spirited in a lot of ways so I shall be departing it. Mark, your wife may use any of my posts she feels will benefit her.
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Strangelittleman Regular user Sydney Aus 184 Posts |
Ok boys and girls - I know I'm not normally a voice of reason in most things Im involved in - but come on guys, perhaps we should all breath, and move onto something constructive in this.
Now Mau has asked for advice - some have interpreted what has been said incorrectly (or correctly, or enough information wasnt supplied, or whatever) but now that things are known more clearly can we move onto giving someone a hand who's asking for one?????? Anybody???? Now - I only have one question for the young bloke, and that's simply - what do you do, enjoy doing - name some slieghts you know, whatever. In all honesty - if you have some 'good' tricks down (on a night I might use 8 different tricks depending) you only need to worry about presentation in my opinion, that's where your practice infront of a mirror/tv, rehersal and all of that really doesn't stand up - people will influence you, distract you, and generally make things chaotic on occasion - and your presentation will make or break the trick mate. If you want to know some of the things I do on a night - look in RRTCM (90%of my card stuff is from this, and I get great responses), Complete course in magic (mark W) - sponge's, Psyhcokentic silverware for forkbending (bring your own lol) - and otherwise a few little packet things and some coins (alot of roth/bobo stuff). Routines - well that's a personal thing I feel - how you put them together should flow - and that's something you'll get a better feel for as things progress, I know I have. Anyway - best of luck mate - I basically landed a job in a similar way and have been working in that pub, for two months or more and now have a second venue aswell Terry The Strangelittleman |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-08 01:49, kammagic wrote: Let me say this to you Kam. YEP you are right, no need to keep beating him. We do have the RIGHT inturpritation, so lets not keep working as if we don't. No way to make progress if you always refer to the first unclarified post. I like this logic. It is again, the only way to ever learn, grow and make progress. I hope we agree! He was vague, ok lesson learned, be more clear. He KNOWS THAT NOW. Sorry if I threw your mojo off by the agreement, but I always try to be reasonable believe it or not. Bad, you go deeper and deeper. It is sad. It is tough to twist words when they are written for all to see. As Rich said I think you are embarassed. So to get her masters your wife happened to be walking by your computer and used this huh? The irony is your complete inability to act like the adult you so crave to put across you are. Why not apply the same logic to your silliness that we do to the original post? We will let it go, and just forget you tried to claim it. Not many of us buy it anyhow. We can move on from there. I will give this last bit of tough love. Part of finding somewhere to be "bad" has to be strategic. IF you land a job at your dream restaurant, and blow it because you are "bad" just try going back in a few years and landing it again. Many comics can't get work in the room they started in because the owners often think they are the same person. ONLY one chance to make a first impression. Don't waste it. I believe this is what Steve was trying to put across. Keep in mind those who are angry with Steve, he is 17, he is passionate. He is trying to help. We helped him with tough love and he responded quite well. He is prospering for it. He is simply trying to give back in this fashion. Lets not throw too many stones at him. Throw them at Rich and myself and Santa, for we are probably the biggest reason for many of his thoughts. He is a good guy, and a worker and moving up. Now maybe we can all stop the sniping.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-08 01:49, kammagic wrote: So someone posts a question, doesn't give ALL the facts and it's up to the Café' members to seek him /her out to find out what they really mean. Is it not the poster's responsibility to participate in the posts and conversations regarding his/her original question? I saw not ONE response or clarification from the poster, and if he/she was scared off from posting, then again I say you should not be in this business. (rejection is something that is common in this business, and overcoming it is a sign of becoming professional) Sure I agree Magicians helping Magicians, but hand holding is other thing.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts |
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On 2007-06-08 10:43, davidpaul$ wrote: The way I see it if you understood what he was saying you could of answered appropriately if you didn't then don't answer. If you were unsure then answer like Doc did by giving several pieces of advice that the person can choose from without saying anything rude or out of line to the person themselves. I just hope you gentleman don't treat customers like this. If someone came up and asked you something you didn't understand I guess you would just figure them an idiot and tell them its their fault and they should of been more prepared. that's what I am afraid young performers are going to see here and think is ok. As professionals we are the adults and should act accordingly. The newbies to magic are like our children and yes sometimes they are just looking for someone to hold their hand to reassure them. that's our responsibility and what "Magicians helping Magicians" is all about. |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts |
Wow...
I haven't been spending as much time here on the Café because this place will not make you a better magician. This thread should have stopped after Doc Eason and Paul Green chimed in. Wait, what have I done!!!! Delete, delete, dellllllletjorgh!!!!!!! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Kam a few things. Firs of all it is kind of funny how you ignore me when I completly agree with you.
Second of all there is a difference in a PAYING CUSTOMER and a kid looking for free advice. Furthermore, you have no right to tell us how to talk to others, any more than we have the right to tell you how to deal with people. I don't agree with your touchey feeley 70's nonsense approach. It is yours and that is fine. But we are not changing you or for that matter being critical. If you don't like the way is is said don't read, and don't respond, but don't be critical. I for one have extended you this, I don't tell you to change how you deal with people, maybe you can do the same?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
Hart,
Why after Mr. Eason and Mr. Green chimed in? I have a mountain of respect for both of them, but this thread should have stopped well before there was a page 2. Re-read the first few posts. There is nothing exceedingly critical of Mau. I read some people very much questioning whether Mau was prepared for a job. It wasn't until Bad to the Balloon was called out on his don't follow a card trick with a card trick that he decided to jump up and down calling people names (jackals, old farts), which totally surprised me coming from a guy so sensitive about Mau's feelings and whose wife is writing a thesis on cyber-bullying, that this thread took a turn south. Then it wasn't about Mau anymore. Bad decide that this thread was going to be about him. Then Kamm and Bad decided to manipulate (magic-themed term...lol) Mr. Eason and Mr. Green's messages to further their collective cause, which re-reading Mr. Eason's post.... "on THIS thread...Before he applies for a job!, I'd suggest that Mau start doing magic in as many places as he can so that he gets some valuable 'flight time' on his tricks and routines." And "Any way .. Mau, I don't want to rain on your parade... but just perform a bunch before applying for a job doing magic. There are PLENTY of places to practice. Do yourself and magic in general a favor and don't jump into the deep end with out splashing around in the shallow end first..", he clearly telling Mr. Mau the same things said in the first few posts. Perform, perform, perform...but maybe not in a restaurant environment where you are being paid. I do disagree with you though, Hart. Even this thread has merit in the "Magicians helping Magicians". One can learn a lot if they pay attention. I just read something from Jamy Swiss "Shattering Illusions" about watching bad magicians and being able to learn what not to do. I'm not calling anyone here a bad magician...hell everyone here might be better than me. But, there are things in this thread that I've learned. patrick |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
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On 2007-06-08 17:10, patrick flanagan wrote: :applause:
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
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On 2007-06-08 23:47, davidpaul$ wrote: :thumbsup: |
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solrak29 Special user NY Metro 936 Posts |
Uh...can someone point me to the shallow end?
Some examples? Where I can splash around a bit....
To Find Me On The Pitch, Follow me :On Twitter
Checkout my pseudo blog : The Sidewalk Performers Forum "I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
Solrak29,
I would say volunteering at a VA hospital....or any hospital for that matter; nursing homes or assisted living centers, orphanages, abuse shelters are other places where, I think, people would appreciate free entertainment. There are many benefits or fundraisers, ranging from specific organizations (breast cancer, etc.) to smaller private functions (local family with mounting medical bills), for a variety of reasons where you could offer your services for free. That could be a start. It gives you a place to work out routines, deal with small crowds in a more informal, less pressured situation. Let's face it, if someone is paying for a service, they are paying for a job to be done and done correctly. They aren't paying for your education, so when someone is paying you to perform, that isn't the place to be "bad". Hope this helps. Patrick |
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts |
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On 2007-06-08 16:27, Dannydoyle wrote: So you are only nice to people who pay you? YIKES! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On 2007-06-09 03:37, kammagic wrote: Again fine manipulation of words. Seems to be what you and Bad specialise in. What everyone else knows I am saying though, is this. You said "I hope you guys don't treat customers like this", (Ironic comming from the "Hey I work for tips so you can tip me now" guy) so I simply pointed out that a guy looking for free advice, and who asks a question that is really been asked 100000 times here on the Café, and who has no business doing the job in the first place, is a different animal from someone who has taken their time to come and see me. Paid money, and is enjoying an evening. So obviously you misrepresent what customers say, you manipulate words, and you start pie fights with them, and even when they agree with you, you then don't acknowlege it? Somehow I actually believe this.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-09 09:41, Dannydoyle wrote: Well Danny, You are on a forum where young magicians have the opportunity to get free advice from professionals. that's sorta the whole point. We are bound to have repeat questions. I thought Mau's question was rather unique. He wasn't looking for work. The manager saw him and was so impressed that he was asked to come interview at the restuarant. He obviously has some talent and we do not know what the manger was going to offer him. We don't even know the size of the restuarant. Maybe he was looking for wait staff that could do some things to entertain guests now and then. Maybe he had one event that he was looking for someone to entertain. Mau should absolutely go for the interview see what the guy is offering then he can decide if he feels he is up to the challenge. If you don't have time to help these young guys then why are you here Danny? |
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Magic_Steve Inner circle Maryland 1476 Posts |
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If you don't have time to help these young guys then why are you here Danny? First off...let me jump in really quick. Danny most certainly does help people. He's honest with them...and that helps the most. No need in sugarcoating things. One thing I can trust from Danny is him being straight-up about things. He won't make things sound any easier than they are. In fact, if it wasn't for Danny, Rich, Santa, Kyle, Troy, Micheal Baker, and a lot of others, I'm not sure if I would be where I am right now. As mentioned, they ALL helped me, more than I could ever repay. If you don't like Danny, then that's your problem. I'm sure he'll still sleep at night anyways, and keep on performing and having fun, all the while making $$$$$ doing what he loves. But please don't say he doesn't help people. The style in which he does it might turn some people away, but it'll help just as many aswell. And lets face it, if your feelings get hurt over a comment on a message board, then you might need to reconsider trying to do this in the first place. Best, Steve |
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RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
I can only speak for myself,but one of the reasons I am here is to help preserve the integrity of our 'specialization' within the realm of Magical performance.
That includes,but is not limited to,making new comers aware that philosophies such as asking for tips is not the way to proceed.This is of course my opinion and that of the vast majority of other workers here. This is serious business,many of us earn most of our income from restaurant performance. Let's stop harping on being 'nicey nice',and rather give good firm advice that is backed up by our experience. I saw nothing that was over the line in the advice given on the first page of this thread..so get over it. If you you and other's came here with an agenda that you were going to be 'bleeding heart' gentleness cops,it's not going to fly. Rudeness is one thing[I don't like that],but presenting thoughts in a firm and serious manner is quite another. I have seen many newbies take the advice of seasoned pro's here,and move on in a positive direction. Speaking for myself I have received many PM's thanking me for the information I have dispensed here.I am sure other's have also. It's all about preserving the Art of Restaurant Performance with direct commentary and answers. Rich |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On 2007-06-09 11:38, kammagic wrote: Yet another spin and twist of things. I am no longer going to respond as you twist things so much it is pointless. Or your ideas are so convoluted as to make us wonder if you even work at all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-09 14:20, Dannydoyle wrote: What am I spinning or twisting? My point is clear and I speak the truth. You wonder if I even work at all? I have told you this before privately. There is plenty of info about me on the internet. I have a website you can check out and see where I perform currently and where I have performed in the past. I have many videos posted on YouTube where you can see me perform live where I work. My avatar is a picture of me. I'm not lying or hiding. But you on the other hand seem very suspicious. Your avatar is generic, I have never seen a picture of you anywhere or read anything about you performing anywhere. There is no video footage of you. You don't even have a website with info about you. You may be very good. But we have no proof of this. |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
Kamm,
I've seen video of Danny's full show. As a matter of fact, I have a copy of it at home here. His show is very professional, extremely funny, and very entertaining (even my wife laughed her @ss off...and she is tough to impress). Danny has been around the block more than a few times. He has learned his craft from some of the most respected workers in our field. HIs advice is 99% of the time...dead-on accurate. He doesn't sugar coat things...he tells it like it is...which is the way it should be...my opinion. Funny how Danny didn't get involved in this whole Mau thing....he called Bad out on a ridiculous statement about not following a card trick with a card trick...and it's become this now. Yes, bottle of Advil...I'm coming to get you. But, as far as spinning and twisting?...Well, you can start with the whole Doc and Paul support your arguement. There is nothing in their posts that would indicate that. patrick |
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