The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Fast & Loose presentation ideas (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
sethb
View Profile
Inner circle
The Jersey Shore
2693 Posts

Profile of sethb
I have Whit Haydn’s “Fast & Loose” DVD, and thought it was one of the best values in magic –- crystal-clear explanations of the moves, well-organized and plenty of bang for the buck. Yet the chain sat in my dresser drawer for months; I was just not satisfied with my own performance of the routine, which seemed slow, forced and boring.

Although the Haydn and Anton routines were very creative and well done, the problem was that even with several changes, they did not fit my persona and performing style. The basic idea of encouraging spectators to participate in a “game,” with fake wagering per Chef Anton, just fell flat in my hands. And try as I could, I was unable to come up with an alternate workable presentation for myself.

However, I recently found another presentation idea in Lewis Ganson’s 1969 book, “The Art of Close-Up Magic”: doing Fast & Loose as a gambling demonstration, without actually revealing the secret of the swindle. While this is certainly logical enough, it had never occurred to me! And it works far better for me, because it puts the effect into a “teaching” mode, where I am supposedly showing the audience how the scam operates. Of course, the more I explain it, the more mystifying it becomes, because there is no answer as to why the spectator always loses. So in the end, it does appear to be a magic trick of sorts, especially with Chef Anton’s final “kicker” involving the knotted chain.

This type of presentation also lets me work in plenty of historical background and good patter about the Law of Averages and the Gambler’s Fallacy (see pages 14-28 of John Scarne’s “New Complete Guide to Gambling”), which can serve either as great hooks or watertight excuses why the spectator isn’t winning. Once I got the germ of the idea from Ganson’s book, I was amazed how quickly the whole thing came together in my mind, proving once again that your patter must be your own to be truly comfortable and convincing.

This presentation also allows me to use audience participation if I want to, since one person can pretend to be the “mark.” Yet there is no embarrassment of the assistant, since we all know in advance what the outcome is going to be –- they will always lose. This also minimizes the “challenge” aspect of the game, which permits the entertainment aspect to predominate and makes the magician’s job much easier. Instead of being disappointed when they lose, the assistant and the audience laugh, because it’s a funny situation and everyone can enjoy it, but not at the expense of anyone else.

If you aren’t comfortable with the standard “game” routine, you might want to try the above tack instead. There’s always more than one way to skin a cat (or throw a chain). And it shows once again that there’s often gold in those old magic books! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
MagicSanta
View Profile
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5845 Posts

Profile of MagicSanta
Thank you.
DStachowiak
View Profile
Inner circle
Baltimore, MD
2158 Posts

Profile of DStachowiak
You might like Marc De Souza's "Chain Gang" presentattion, if you can find it.
Don
Woke up.
Fell out of bed.
Dragged a comb across m' head.
sethb
View Profile
Inner circle
The Jersey Shore
2693 Posts

Profile of sethb
Thanks, Don, for the suggestion. I had heard about the DeSouza routine, but have never had the chance to see it.

I'll definitely look into it for some more ideas. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
sethb
View Profile
Inner circle
The Jersey Shore
2693 Posts

Profile of sethb
Just did a fast 'Net search and saw that the DeSouza video may still be available from Camirand Academy, in either VHS or PAL.

However, the School for Scoundrels website also notes that it will be offering the same material on DVD in the near future. Perhaps Mr. Haydn can chime in and provide a timeline for us? SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Whit Haydn
View Profile
V.I.P.
5449 Posts

Profile of Whit Haydn
I am not sure what material you are referring to?

We do carry the DeSouza video, and will carry his DVD when it comes out. It is an excellent routine. We have nothing to do with the production of that product, however.
sethb
View Profile
Inner circle
The Jersey Shore
2693 Posts

Profile of sethb
Ahhhh, thanks for the info, Whit.

I thought you were re-releasing the DeSouza video in DVD format. Now I understand that you will simply be selling it when it becomes available. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Clarioneer
View Profile
Special user
Ferndown, Dorset, UK
624 Posts

Profile of Clarioneer
DeSouza video is now in DVD format - and includes a cheap chain so you can get right into it.. His own routine suits his style very well.. and with some very very minor changes now suits mine very nicely...

Rather than the fast and loose history or con presentation I like the magical aspects of it - some parts are seemingly impossible... and are the parts that drop jaws... not just de souza's ending but also look at the 3 petals themselves make these and show how impossible it would be not to stay fast...

Thus - I perform a "standard" fast and loose presentation then move it into a display of the seemingly impossible...

If you have seen the desouza routine then at the petals stop after making the petals before throwing over the loop and show they must hold fast... then the fast petal throw then as you make the loose petal "you see this is where you can beat the operator if you all club together and make a large bet, all he wanted to do was give some back to encourage you to continue playing..." - I skip the two petal part (as it now has seemingly gone from fast/loose to pure magic/impossibility) - and in his last section skip the overly complicated fast part... thus two nice sections of fast and loose then two magic sections...
catch you later

Clarioneer
Kjellstrom
View Profile
Inner circle
Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe
4850 Posts

Profile of Kjellstrom
Kjellstrom
View Profile
Inner circle
Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe
4850 Posts

Profile of Kjellstrom
"This game is sometimes called Loopy Loop, Figure Eight, the Chain Swindle, or Pricking the Garter."

E-book:
The Endless Chain (Know-How Series)
http://www.lybrary.com/endless-chain-kno......628.html
Dave V
View Profile
Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4825 Posts

Profile of Dave V
Thanks Mats. I must have missed that one.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
dpe666
View Profile
Inner circle
2888 Posts

Profile of dpe666
If you include this in your working act like I do, and if they are still available, buy one of the chains from School For Scoundrels. I use the silver chain personally. I don't like the look of gold. These chains are the nicest I have seen. Smile
Brane
View Profile
Loyal user
Virginia, USA
272 Posts

Profile of Brane
The chain 'game' is one of the few digitally dexterous things that I consider that I do well, other than Osterlind's billet tear.
I have three of School for Scoundrels chains! I've used a number of different chains over the years - until these became available. I truly can't find anything that works better.
Unlike cards or shells, the chain is pretty much indestuctible. You can play in relatively strong wind outdoors. Spilled drinks, rain, sand, sweat, blood (?) or whatever won't hurt it.
And there are no small parts to lose - like those annoying perfect peas that leap for freedom whenever they can!
It can be played on pretty much ANY surface . . park bench, damp bar, standard magician's close up pad, dining room table, the side of your briefcase . . .

If necessary, you can quickly double the chain up, toss it around your neck, (slip it under your shirt, unless you're into the bling look), and walk away!

I like referring to it as "The Chain Game" as opposed to other names. This way it's,well . . . a 'game!' Not a gambling scam. ("Heaven's no,' he exclaimed in a quiet faux shock.) Similar linguistic manipulation as found in referring to gambling as 'gaming.'
Heck a 'game' is for 'playing!' And 'play' is harmless, yes? Baseball, chess, chutes and ladders . . .

And one who is a master of the chain game is a 'chain artist!' (Or perhaps artiste?)

I toss the long chain
All day and all night
One loop lets you go
one loop holds you tight

A loose loop loses
A tight loop is right
Choose it and you win
There's a chance that you might!

It's only a game
It's not worth a fight
If you don't want to play
Then I bid you good night!

brane
ursusminor
View Profile
Elite user
Norway
443 Posts

Profile of ursusminor
Can't say I've seen a rhyming spiel for the endless chain yet, thanks!
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them
pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened."
- Winston Churchill"
Whit Haydn
View Profile
V.I.P.
5449 Posts

Profile of Whit Haydn
Nice work.

Chef Anton's patter is also entirely in rhyme. His routine is available on our DVD.
gphrenol
View Profile
Regular user
106 Posts

Profile of gphrenol
I was wondering if the DVD cover everything the book does? It is such a great historical routine.
Whit Haydn
View Profile
V.I.P.
5449 Posts

Profile of Whit Haydn
Our Book on the Fast and Loose covers everything in the DVD, but has more historical, philosophical and psychological concepts that are not covered on DVD.

We show three routines in the book--mine, Chef Anton's, and Jules Lenier's. Only the first two are shown on the DVD.
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18560 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
I have a kicker ending, I think I showed it to Whit some time ago. This discussion has made me decide to write it up and put into my next series book.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
BrucUK
View Profile
Regular user
UK
163 Posts

Profile of BrucUK
I just present this as a demonstration of the "game", a bit of history, a simple "win" for me (preceded by "selling the lie"), doubling their chances with the "two-fingers-one-remains" move - where I get another spectator to pull the chain (because some people think I cheat by pulling it in a strange way....as if...)
Then I show them the "Tulip" move with some history fo "Tulipmania" (to show what a REAL con move looks like), ending with the "chain hanging off the finger", just to show that when a con-man makes something look so simple and fair, it usually isn't.

Personally, I don't see the need to try a complicated "routining" of this, so long as you do not make the spec/assistant look like a fool then it's a fun, powerful and entertaining routine pretty much as it is.

Bruce
wulfiesmith
View Profile
Special user
Beverley, UK
856 Posts

Profile of wulfiesmith
As an introduction to the Fast and Loose routine, I use a 2" metal ring and the chain.

With this I perform Bangle Delight. A routine featured in The Art of Close Up Magic by Lewis Ganson.

You have fun passing the ring on and off the chain. The spectator not "keeping up" at all.

I then put the ring down and continue with Fast and Loose.
Finishing with the Drop Ring onto Chain routine.

It all ties in very well, and extends the routine.
Thinking of incorporating the Jardine or Ellis ring into this ...

regards,
WulfieSmith
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Fast & Loose presentation ideas (2 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.4 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL