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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
Per usual? Not me! I'm usually quite warm and fuzzy.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2007-06-18 12:46, LobowolfXXX wrote: What sort of things do you like and what are you seeking to learn?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
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That's just the kind of response that irks Lobo to no end.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Thanks, I was tempted to suggest "the ones you don't know" but that seemed too easy.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Muckey Spleen New user 83 Posts |
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On 2007-06-18 12:46, LobowolfXXX wrote: I'm continually amazed at the cataclysmic laziness exhibited by so-called magicians. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Yes. Cataclysmic laziness can be amazing, but it's not the best trick in the book, I agree.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2007-06-19 15:15, Muckey Spleen wrote: I think that's a mischaracterization. You could spend hours a day reading magic books, and die several times over before you read them all. We operate on suggestions, recommendations, and the wisdom of people who have preceded us. It's no "lazier" than reading book reviews, movie reviews (or, in fact, just asking a friend who has seen a few movies which he enjoyed more), consumer digest reports, or a number of other things of that nature. Does everyone else here really just buy magic books and read effects at random, without input from anyone else?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
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On 2007-06-19 17:21, LobowolfXXX wrote: Believe it or not, I've done that many times.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2007-06-19 17:25, Vandy Grift wrote: I bet you've found some real hidden gems that way, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Highly possible. I think it's a very effective way to learn and to discover what appeals to you. Learn to know yourself. You may have to work a little for it. But it won't be time wasted. You've got the book right there- why not maximize its potential? Research and development.
Definitely a very relevant discussion going on here. Maybe this should be in the Food for Thought section. Good topic, LobowolfXXX. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Why would anyone presume that what works for one performer would work as well if at all for another?
The road to creating art begins with technique but really does need an individual vision. And who else but YOU can offer you your own vision?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-19 19:48, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I think the truth is somewhere in between. It's not the case that it's all interchangeable, but I think it IS the case that some things work better than others, and that the experiences of others who have gone before us can be useful. The request I saw and initially commented upon was just one specific illustration of that principle. The absolutist position that it's all entirely individualized, and nobody's experiences can be translated to the benefit of anyone else would sort of make the whole Café obsolete, wouldn't it?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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On 2007-06-19 20:25, LobowolfXXX wrote: And at some point, someone's experience found the entire content of the book worthy of publishing, study, and performance. So what to go with? One can learn from the experiences of others, ABSOLUTELY, but being able also to learn from your own brings accountability, responsibility, discipline. Raises the bar. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2007-06-19 20:25, LobowolfXXX wrote: I've seen plenty of people attempting the Ramsay tricks without even learning to motivate the hand to hand prop transfers much less to integrate the feints into their character's interaction with the audience. The question is really not "what works" on a behavioral level but "why it wokrs" which is once removed from behavior and knowledge which others can apply. Without eliciting the strategy behind the behavior one can waste much time aping and not get any bananas. If you want to do the modeling work... learn some NLP and then go for it with the subjects permission of course. In the mean time, learning base methods and strategies from the literature is not so horrible BUT you must remember that the reader is expected to already have a character and to know when a bit-of-business or digression from the procedural narrative is required. Have a look at Ponsin's book for examples of where the bits have been lost and the reader is left to explore how their character would make the moment work.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-19 20:52, magicalaurie wrote: That's true, but it also goes outside the boundaries of the question raised. A personal with professional and personal duties may be interested in reading Shakespeare, but may not have time to read the complete works; he asks me, as someone familiar with a variety of his works, which I would recommend given that he's really only got time to read one. "Read them all" is useless, as advice. He can't read them all. That's in the parameters of the question. It's like arguing with an SAT question that starts "A train going 75 miles an hour leaves Los Angeles for Cleveland at 8:00 p.m.," and saying that the train should stay in Los Angeles, where it's sunny and nice. It's just a non sequitur. So, what sort of response could we make, really? 1. "Well, if you don't have time to read all of them, you're lazy and unworthy of Shakespeare. Don't read any of them!" 2. "They're all good" (Who's being lazy NOW? Now he's as likely to pick (God forbid) Titus Andronicus as King Lear.) Clearly, this can't be the right answer. 3. Or, I could give him my own input, which may or may not match his tastes. If he has the foresight to ask not JUST me, but put a post up on, say, theshakespearecafe.com, he'll get a variety of choices, and maybe some sort of consensus. #3 sounds like the winner to me, personally. If you've got time to read one, than you can't read more than one. You'd probably also like to read one of the better ones. Yup, some publisher thought they were all good enough to publish, and in the same book, too. Does that really imply that they're all equally good?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
And for the first five wisacres on the verge of posting a reply that says, "I think Titus Andronicus is as good as or better than King Lear," I know you're lying. Don't bother posting, because I won't believe you.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Bob Clayton Loyal user 245 Posts |
How would your response differ if you were asked this question in person? Or would you ask exploratory questions to gain an understanding of this person’s level of experience, interest and commitment first?
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
That's a good question. It might depend on the book; for instance, if there was a wide range of skill levels required, depending on the trick, or if the book had a mixture of different types of effects, then I would ask about those things. On the other hand, if all of the effects were pretty much mid-skill-range card tricks, that might be less critical.
On the other hand, you can also do that in the online response, e.g. something like, "Trick X, on page 117, really floors people, but you have you be able to do a one-handed blindfold top card cover pass...if you're looking for something that's less of a knucklebuster, try Trick Q..." or "If you like cards, Bananafish is a great effect, but if you're more of a coin guy, you might prefer Dababariderhopper."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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