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Rupert Bair Inner circle ? 2179 Posts |
I think a lot of magicians get too greedy. A lot of areas where I live I know deep down they can't really afford me but they want to make their kids b'day special. When you think about presents, b'day food, prizes etc. etc., then a magician on top is not cheap. I know it is not our problem but just because you can get so many hundreds of dollars for 45 minutes of your time, does it make it right??
If you are in the right market then best of luck to you. But if you are in an average area, I would feel bad if the kid couldn't have a magician because he charges to much. And I'm against the whole undercutting cr*p people keep coming out with. Who's to say what people want to charge. If you can't get work because some local hack gets more work than you, then your obviously not the great magician you think you are. M:C |
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Mumblemore Inner circle 1429 Posts |
I think Matt may be a little harsh, and that we have to balance our economic needs against the other reason we`re here (to give kids a good time and show them that even in this television and ¨virtual¨ age, imaginative, live entertainment is still around). But I think that there are a few magicians out there who are more hype than substance, and we could all do better with fewer of them. Randirain if you don`t even advertise at all then you are clearly not one of these. If you´re doing well without advertising at all, power to you.
I would add a question: Do you charge a little less for school shows, and is there a difference between non-profit schools and for profit schools? I´ve been doing some free shows for non-profit schools (my kids´public schools, the YMCA, etc.), but charging private schools more than birthday parties (on the premise that they have deeper pockets). What do you think of this? Should we stagger rates, for birthday parties or school assembly shows? If you give breaks to poorer institutions, do the richer ones find out, in your experience? |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Todd:
I can definitely tell you have tons of experience under your belt, and I always enjoy it when you post here on the MAGIC Café. Gerry |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
Thanks Gerry!
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
10 + is a great age to share some great magic.
Many of our younger magicians in the clubs are getting there via seeing Chris A. Sometimes I joke after a bit...He's like Chris Angel without the hair. Fire is a great bit, but I gave it up years ago. (Personal choice). Lies, Statistics and Fees/# of shows.... Lions and Tigers and Bears....oh my.... Sounds like you are marketing you..that is a good thing...and will be noticed by your consumers... As the zen master said when asked what to do when the whirling dervishes moved in next door... "Let them whirl". Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
I try to keep up with what other's are charging, and charge a little more. The funny thing is I have found that what people claim they charge and what they actually charge are not always the same thing. All the time I hear "So and so only charges XXX" when they claim a higher fee.
Personally I doubt that $250 is the average performer's rate. I imagine it is much lower. Yes, some of us make that and more, and they may be the one's responding to the poll. Silly Billy is supposed to be the highest paid children's birthday performer, and he charges $500. I doubt he is only 2x the national average. I can say with a certain amount of certainty that the average birthday show here in Raleigh is in the $150-$175 range. I started out new to this area at $295/hr and that was a bit high for the new guy, so I dropped down to $225. I am keeping that rate, and adding another show for $350, and another for $450. Each show has progressively heavier illusions *G*. |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
Captain....
Most performers do indeed make less than what they claim. But...most performers also are very underpriced in their market. $250.00 for a birthday party may not be the "average" but it is some (myself and others) peoples opinion very cheap. |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
I guess cheap is from a perspective. Many people cannot afford $250. Still, I am feeding my family, so I want as high a price as possible. I am adding more shows at higher rates so I can have more appeal to those that can afford it.
What is a perfomance worth? What the market will bear. I agree most are very underpriced, and the only way I can get them to raise their prices it to raise mine a lot. I no longer refer gigs to magicians that do not charge somewhat close to my rate, regardless of how good they are. I think since many of us make only 40-60K, we judge or rates on what we would pay, not what someone who makes 5x or 10x as much is willing to pay. |
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Cesar Munoz Veteran user 370 Posts |
Randi,
Another factor to consider is "cost of sales." Since you're not paying anything for advertising, it's possible that your actual "net revenue" per show is higher than someone who is paying for advertising. We sometimes forget what it cost us to get that show--and only remember what we were paid. Cesar |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Randi
First, consider the source of that figure ($250). Who did the poll? Why did they do the poll? How many people did they ask? Did those people lie? Don't put too much weight behind a figure that might not be representative. Second - Compare yourself to acts with similar QUALITY to you NOT similar TYPE. I can buy a hamburger for $3 if I want to. It won't put the guys charging $20 out of business. Third - Don't get too hung up on other people's prices. Focus on how much you want to be paid for your show. |
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mcharisse Inner circle York. PA 1226 Posts |
Matt's post about affordability raises an issue I've been wrestling with. When I started doing birthday parites in rural Colorado as a side business 25 years ago, I only charged $25-$35, way less than the richer clients could afford. But I also performed in plenty of mobile homes for families that no way would ever be able to hire a magician otherwise, and they were some of my most appreciative audiences and rewarding shows.
As a full time editor, I don't have to support myself in magic and I'd like to be able to offer something for familes -- and there are plenty around here in southcentral Pennsylvania -- that no way can afford $250. I'm glad to do a charity show, too, but that just isn't the same as a real live magician at your birthday party. And I do like to get paid; the show's worth it. I don't want to deny the full-time pros a job (though apparently these posts tell me they get the higher end gigs anyway.) But I'm glad to do a show for $75 for the family that can't can't afford more. I'd even go $50 if their house, car, etc. tells me any more would be an extravagence for them. Of course I can't alwyas tell this on the phone ar at some other gig or party I'm doing. Anybody ever come up with a way to charge a sliding scale or determine up front what a family can afford? I realize many full-timers can't afford to think this way, but as a part-timer who feels he delivers a solid show no matter what the price (I charge as much as $200 for a sports team or other "special" show). I also want to give those less fortunate who are unable to shell out $250 to amuse their kid with a memorable birthday party. Marc the Magic Man |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
My experience has always been that clients who want something cheap are 9 times out of 10 last minute calls and live in a neighborhood where you might just get shot if you are not careful. I don't make a living off of discount shoppers!
I prefer to work for (A) what I am worth and (B) what is going to pay my bills. $100 - $150 performers are everywhere and they are easy to spot...just check the phone book. The performers that make a lot more do little advertising and pick up most of their shows from word of mouth and other forms of marketing. I choose to be higher than most others as I know that my show and my talent is worth a higher price, I have a wife and kids, mortgage payment, etc. and I don't want to be "just another performer." I don't want to be greedy either but I feel than when a client calls around and gets 3 or 4 prices and finds out that I am the most expensive out of all of them that they see a big difference in price. The other guy brings a live bunny, will float the b-day child, will make animal balloons, etc. and I do none of that but my fee is double what the other guy charges. Guess who gets the gig? |
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randirain Inner circle Fort Worth, TX 1650 Posts |
Ok... a little catching up...
Nicholas, I beleive it was Magic Magazine that did the poll. So I am going to take it that it is at least close to being true. But both Nicholas and Cesar have good points. mcharisse does have something to say. There are times that I have felt bad for charging a nice family, that really couldn't afford me, the price I charge. And those times I have tried to give them a little more than usual. But then again... There are those times that I pull up to this huge house and think that I undercharged them way too much. I have talked about this to other magicians and we haven't got a solution for this. It's just the way it is. Oh... and Todd... Quote:
The other guy brings a live bunny, will float the b-day child, will make animal balloons, etc. and I do none of that but my fee is double what the other guy charges. Guess who gets the gig? I think that's not quite accurate. You may not now... But you used to have a live bunny. I have seen it. It was a very cute little dwarf rabbit you picked up from somebody selling them on some country road. You also used to float the kid. It was a Flying Carpet that you made yourself. So saying that you do none of these may be true, but you at least used to do them. And you used to have a dove too. Randi |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
You are correct about all of these Randi! I have chosen to really change things up and not offer what others are doing....bunny, levitation, etc.
Seems as though some others in and around the area were starting to get into the live animals and floating and still not charging enough. I now take less with me as far as props go but still offer a great show for more money. |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
Oh...and I think working for less than normal for a family that could not otherwise afford you is a very kind thing to do. I have in a few cases worked for less than my normal fee if it was something I really thought was worthwhile. I just can't afford to do that for everyone who can't pay the normal fee.
Also, in some cases I charge less if the client picks a day when I am already in their area with other shows. They know they can save money when I am close by. |
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mcharisse Inner circle York. PA 1226 Posts |
Thanks for hearing what I had to say, Randi and Todd, I know it's a whole different matter for working pros. I guess I wish the world were more equitable at times...I'm not exactly well off, but I always try to stay grateful for what I've got and some of those "disount" shows show me how much I have to be grateful for. To say nothing of Special Olympics, abused kids and other worthy charities out there to perform for...
Marc the Magic man |
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randirain Inner circle Fort Worth, TX 1650 Posts |
I am glad you changed things up Todd.
I am sure I would like your show. Not a big fan of the standard kidshow magic. And I wasn't saying anything bad either. Just making sure that others didn't get the idea that you were saying negative things about bunnys and such. Because your post could have been taken wrong by someone that doesn't know you. I too used to have rabbits, but I got rid of them. Freaking poop factories!! They may only be pellets, but there are about a million of them!! I don't do the standard kid show either. No HH rabbits, no die box, no square circle, no big colorful boxes. It's pretty much a suitcase show. I have started doing parakeet magic though. Mainly because I enjoy it as much as everyone else. I don't use it as an upsell. Matter of fact, I don't even tell the client that I am going to do it. But I have the Dave Womach (SP) gizmo. I do a lot of hanky magic and when the parakeet comes out at the end... It blows people away, and that's fun for me. Randi |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
Randi....
No problem on your post...I know that you mean't nothing by it! I too chose to can the animals and actually thought about bringing the flying carpet back into the show but decided against it after all. Pack flat and play big is my theory! It is very nice to hear that you are not doing what others are doing. I always like to see and hear that people are being creative and can put something original into their show....I have several routines that no one else does...because I created them. Anyway....I still think you should rethink your fee structure. If you are getting little or no price resistance, it is time to raise your fee. I know that DFW has several great performers that are worthy of getting more than what they currently charge. If you can offer your clients something original that they cannot find anywhere else, charge for it. And of course...take into consideration your time, gas, basic expenses, etc. DFW is a big area with lots of money in it...especially some of the nicer areas. I have never seen your show so it is hard to say what it is worth to a client. Track your calls over the next month or so and raise your fee by $25.00 or so and see how many people say yes. P.S. How the heck did you know all of this stuff about me? Live bunny that I bought on the side on the road, flying carpet, dove, etc? Do you have a camera watching me that I am not aware of? I recently sold all of the animal stuff to another performer in the Dallas area...did he tell you? |
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randirain Inner circle Fort Worth, TX 1650 Posts |
HEHE... No, I have know idea who you sold it to.
I'm just that good of a magician!!! Actually, I just have that good of a memory. We used to talk about it when you came into the magic shop. One time you came by after a show and you had your animals. I remember the bunny because he was extremely cute. And I remember the dove because you cut it's tail feathers and it looked funny. The flying carpet... I remember that because of you saying something about how you made the support hidden more than the original... or something like that. But I do have a plan for raising my rate. I already have gone higher than I was doing. I'll have some money coming in from different sources soon, so during this time I am going to raise it even more. Plus I got my show pretty much where I want it right now. Everything in it plays good every time. Randi |
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
I sort of raised my rates recently by taking balloon-making out of a couple of my shows. Balloons are now an add-on to all my shows rather than included in the price. If they don't pay extra, I have more time to book more shows.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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