Agreed.

BTW - They don't really know much about Madison over here.
Its better that way

My beliefs of what makes good magic aside, I simply found the statement to not make sense... The audience was convinced he switched the deck. Were they wrong? yes. Were they fooled? in reality yes, but to them, they had found the answer- he had used a trick deck- and there was no wonder left. I just don't get how that's powerful magic.

Korttihai made some great points - a flourish can distort the magical moment.

Of course, on one will truly think that card magic is for real.

Darwin Ortiz mentions this in on of his book as well, he states that the spectator - once in the right mind set - will lean back and enjoy the show, leaving the rational behind. I believe that a strong visual florish during a trick will remind the spectator that there is skill of hands invovled and this will push him out of the "magical mind set".

Andy

PS - will I order this set? Perhaps, but only for my own juggling pleasure.

Which is why it's so much fun when they can't come up with any other explanation for what they've just seen. Doing a flourish, showing off your skill, gives them exactly such an explanation.



I'd encourage you to get in touch with John Carney and pass that sentiment along. I'd be interested to know his response.

The fact is anyone who does flourishes now and again knows that you get just as good, if not better reactions with flourishes than without. That has been the experience of: Dynamo, The Buck Twins, Hayashi, D.Madison, Myself, and many other higly paid professional magicians - particularly in this day and age. It's partly why all of the above listed have a lot of work.

And if they are not overused they do NOT take anything away from the reaction, if anything they add to it (I'm not just saying this, I have learnt from experience - something many on the Café do not actually have, I realise this). Just make sure you are not doing 'f*** you' type tricks.

And John Carney (who I know of, but do not know a lot about)can disagree as much as he wants, as can anyone else.
But I know that the new breed of card magicians find they get more work with flourishes than without, and people love flourishes. That is a fact that I and many others can testify to.

Back On topic, I love the tricks on this set, very visual stuff that you can do without speaking, and without a pocket full of gaffs. Just what I need for those noisy punk gigs I often work at!

Well, if doing whatever you need to do to get paid is what's important, I guess more power to you with your flourishing.

Flourishes, or card juggling, looks impressive. Simply put it detracts from a magical presentation because it gives an out to the spectator. It doesn't really matter if you believe it or not, it doesn't matter if you understand it, it gives them an out. Even years ago this was know, Dai Vernon wrote about the subject a number of times. If one is overcome with a burning desire to 'show off' then at least they can put in flourishes that compliment the routine not just doing it because they can. Some of the worse card magic I've ever seen was the worse because of the flourishes. Just because some do them, usually because they can and no other reason, doesn't mean jack. Technical skill does not equal entertaining.

Note the statement I made does not equate to the Bucks. I'm in the middle of going through their material and writing a review. Disk one has some cute tricks on it, no routines, but nice tricks.

Looking forward to it

On the business of being accused of using a trick deck, Harry Lorayne will only work with borrowed decks to eliminate that possibility. He says that even if you give away the deck, people will still say it's gimmicked, they just can't figure it out.

I know most magicians would find this impractical, but it is an approach one might consider.

Title: Dan and Dave Tricksandflourishesandeverythingelse
Medium: DVD 3 disk set
Arena: stand up, close up
Available: Any shop, distributed by Murphys Magic Supplies

Imagine if you will, an overweight, middle aged, happy go lucky magician who can barely shuffle a deck of cards decides to take part in the ultimate challenge. This magician will watch a DVD by two young men who are considered to be the top in their field of card manipulation and handling cards in general and see if they can teach him anything. If they succeed they deserve the high level they claim in the art, if not, well they just join the flock of others that have failed the magician. The two masters of the paste boards are Dan and Dave Buck, or as I prefer to call them Dave and Dan Buck, the magician is me…..let the games begin!

Before I put in the first DVD I want to go over the packaging of this product. It is beautifully done. I’ve not seen packaging this nice for any DVD be it magic or for some movie. You get a box that holds the disks in a very nice fold out inner packet and a book of notes concerning the project. The only problem I have is the font used is small and hard for my aging eyes to read. You can’t judge a book by its cover but if you can judge a DVD set by the packaging this should be something special. I like quality conscious people and the Bucks are that. As I reach for the DVD player I realize, this will be the first time I’ve seen the Bucks since they were just kids in the Bay Area, should be fun. I’ll be back after watching the DVDs! Wish me luck!

Disk One: Tricks

First the production level, it is very good. The sound is fine and a very good camera is used. All you see is a close up of the cards, you never see the heads of the Bucks. Most of the effects are in the hands, in fact tables are used only as landing surfaces at best. The way this is filmed is unusual but for what you are after it works. By this I mean the focus is the cards. The way it works is you get the main menu of the 14 tricks shown, and these are tricks not really routines, then an additional menu opens and you get to pick either performance, explanation, or OTS, which is different angles on the shot.

The tricks are all quickies and show the Buck touch in that they are somewhat showy. These tricks would be perfect for the dedicated street assassin or hallway hit man, dedicated because you will need to practice to get these down and you won’t, or shouldn’t, want to attempt these before being having them down. These quickies likely wouldn’t be of much use to the entertainment driven performer who uses cards to support story telling and so forth. This is hard to get down but the material is more awe inspiring than entertaining. They are exhibitions of skill. The instructions are clearly given and key points gone over well. I found I was able to follow along and understood the basis of the moves and was able to duplicate, in a very poor manner, the moves. This is good because no one wants tricks that are so difficult that most can’t achieve them, these you can achieve if you are willing to put in the effort.

I felt that some of the tricks would be a good way to get into an ace routine while others are just show boat stuff, again why the street assassins will love them. They can walk up to someone and do their “wanna see something?” patter, do it, then wander off in a daze. The specs will love it. Most the tricks are transpositions and color changes or similar. Let’s face it, these guys are good, the inspirations for the tricks, which are well credited, are or were good, the visuals amazing. Will I be performing any of the tricks? Doubtful, not really my style. I will work on them though because of the challenge and they do look so darn cool. To be clear, these tricks are very good for what they are and some of the most amazing card moves I’ve seen on DVD, usually this stuff never makes it to the unwashed masses.

Disk Two: Flourishes

I think the Bucks went to film school, if I recall correctly. That might explain the amazing quality of this DVD set. The flourishes section is for the most part very complex multiple cuts. Spiders would get a headache watching this material. Again the youngsters out there really into manipulations and going for the quick hit will love this material. The way the menu is set up and how they break down the instructions is cool. Great music and written instructions for the moves. I had a problem with some of the moves, a lot actually, because of short fingers, for example I cannot spin a card between the thumb and forefinger, it will hit my hand. The instructions were really well done though and I could follow along and any limitations were my own not due to the way things were done on the DVD.

In performance I limit myself to a triple false cut because I’m of the school that believes that a flourish gives an out to the spectator. They are fun to do and to learn but just because one can doesn’t mean one must. So while none of these super cuts will get into my program it doesn’t mean they are not impressive, they are, and that in some circumstances they would fit into a routine. I do have to hand it to the minds that come up with these flourishes and the ability of those that get good at them. You are to be saluted. I’m afraid I can’t pick one as a stand out, they are all flashy, the one thing I’d say I’ll never try is where you drop the card and kick it back up. I’m past my ability to kick like that!

This is the best collection of flourishes of this type I’ve ever seen and the best instruction to boot.

Disk Three: Everything else

On disk three we get into the meat and potatoes of this set. As I went into this disk I was thinking about how much finger strength is required for a lot of the moves and there, to my great pleasure, was a section on finger exercises. This is really important and I’ve made up my own exercises but will be adding these to the mix. The finger coordination exercise shown is freaky as heck done to full speed by whatever Buck it is showing it. Make sure you go to this section and really work on your finger strength because it will help you in the long run.

I found the material here on disk three, the everything else in the title, to be of most use during performance of card magic. Let me explain. As an old Dai Vernon influenced magician I believe in naturalness in handling of cards. Let’s be honest, fascinating as much of the material here is it cannot be called natural by any means. So while I do some of the moves taught already those are reserved for my own practice or when I really want to impress someone at a magic club or just smack someone between the eyes with a maneuver. It doesn’t mean I have any problems with the great flourishes out there I just believe it takes away from a traditional presentation for the more showy stuff. Here, on this disk, there are some moves which can show great skill yet not be the two by four upside the head of the spectator that some of the other material is. I’ve run into many youngsters who think that because a magician doesn’t put in flourishes they cannot do it. You would be wrong, Dai Vernon could flourish with the best of them and so can many of the greats you didn’t see do flourishes in performance. The difference is they understood presentation and entertainment value came before self glory, think about it.

The material under the title Table Work had the most application to performance, mostly in a gambling routine. The moves are showy yet not overboard and while you will need to practice, of course, it will be well worth it. The Heap Scotch is a very nice multiple false cut. Showy yet not overkill. The Black Jack Production would be a killer way to emphasize the end of a gambling routine, not only do you show your skill by producing the four aces but also the four jacks afterward. Much easier to do than it looks. The Forte Flourish is a nice way to reveal a card. The other material really isn’t something that would fit into my act but they are fun things to practice and learn and remember, just because it doesn’t fit my character that doesn’t mean I am not impressed with or do not see the value in performance for this material. I don’t drink ice tea but that doesn’t stop the rest of the world from loving it. So if I say I won’t be using something don’t confuse that for not liking it, two different things.

Flourish 101 goes over 20 standards that for the most part have definite application to magical presentation. Some will be known to most of you but you may get something out of the images shown. I always had problems with the Hot Shot Cut but corrected myself with the film here. Among the items taught are The Sybil Cut, some spreads, some cuts, dribbling the cards, fans, all that cool stuff. What thrilled me and also hurt my feelings a bit was a one handed cut I created many years ago and shared with very few people was shown and now I have a name to associate with it, the Revolution Cut. I did have a problem with the DVD on crediting in this section. Granted it may be in the booklet but the combination of extremely small font and white text on gray made it impossible for me to read. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt since they did credit on the other DVDs. My only other issue is that the moves were shown w/out benefit of either spoken or written points of instruction. I think for most it wasn’t really needed but for something as complicated as the Sybil Cut appears to be it would have been a nice addition. For the Sybil cut I found instruction on the DVD Sucker Punch to be better only because of the detail given.

This DVD like the others is very well shot and the sound perfect. The Bucks have grown up to be fine young men, remember I knew them as kids, and they know where card manipulation falls into the scheme of things. They do not look at the cards as the most important thing in life as some young people do, that is to their favor. They need to be applauded obviously for their amazing skills but also for their abilities to explain what often can be very complicated maneuvers that come easy to them. It is easy to say “do this then this” as you’ll encounter the Bucks do a fantastic job on explaining the actions and know what points to emphasize. This isn’t as easy as you would think. Too often if you are very good at something it is hard to see the key points because by the time you are that good you see the forest not the trees.

They also should be applauded for the quality of the film work itself. The angles are top notch and they used the best cameras and lighting set ups they could and it shows. With the garbage being released on DVD these days, and everyone can do one with little effort it is clear at this point, it is good to see someone care as much as they did about a product. They are not alone but for their age and knowing that the market existed for them with a lot less work and expense it is nice to see they made the effort and succeeded as they have. At minimum these DVDs give card guys something to aim for, even if nothing makes it onto the table during your performance, it is still good that this type of material is there and as a personal challenge we can strive to learn these moves even if the only audience for them is our cat. Some will take these and hit the streets and find the jaw dropping they want so badly, I still don’t think girls will scream at you unless you produce a weapon but still the jaws will drop.

If you want to see some world class workers do things with cards few others can do then get this set. If you want to be challenged then get this set. If you are happy doing false cuts that look like the kind of cuts people do in the real world and don’t need to be impressed then think about it twice. Congrats to the Bucks, you and your crew did an outstanding job and you may consider producing works for others, if they merit your time, because you have the talent and eye to become major forces in production of DVDs.

Awesome review! These guys are ridiculously talented.

I'm not a flourishy guy when I perform but I would like to check out these dvds just for my own pleasure... if only I could afford them. Maybe at some point.

Awesome review! These guys are ridiculously talented.

I'm not a flourishy guy when I perform but I would like to check out these dvds just for my own pleasure... if only I could afford them. Maybe at some point.

I'm not sure how much can go on a DVD but I've a feeling they could have put all the info on one and the three was done to build the image and increase the cost. I don't know of course but I get that feeling.

No, the DVD format requires 30-70 megabytes of data per minute of video at what would be considered "DVD Quality". Single Layer DVDs can hold 4.7 gigabytes of data. Doing the math on that, DVDs can hold between somewhere between 2 and 3 hours of video at maximum. As the set has over 6 hours of video, you couldn't even fit all of that info on two single layer dvds, let alone one.

Thank you. I do want to warn you I went to school before calculators so ease up on the mega and giga bytes! I do appreciate the info, I keep hearing that they can hold all kinds of hours but I will accept your answer sir. Hoffman Estates, I know that place.

Or maybe MagicSanta means that not all of the 6 hours are needed. . . ?

No, nothing like that!

I will say the action is so fast paced it sure didn't seem like six hours but I watched it over a period of time writing the review as I went along.

Thanks for the clarification . . .

To be more clear someone, obviously insane, told me they can get 12 hours on a DVD. I have no clue how much until now.