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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Basic cheating question(s) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

James F
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Inner circle
Atlanta
1097 Posts

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My roommate and I have been working on some simple card cheating to have some fun in friendly, no stakes, games. Our friends around the area play a lot, almost always for nothing. We aren't looking to do anything too complex, just some basic stacking and signaling to see if we can do it and have a little fun. (Never for money and never with people who would be upset if they caught us. These are all friends.) Since we all play Hold Em, we've really only been working on signaling cards to each other and stacking two cards for either ourselves or each other. (But not both. We aren't that good.)

However, tonight the thought of stacking the flop occurred to me. I noticed that a lot of the times that I practiced stacking myself a good hand, I would still lose. Although some cards are statistically better to start with, it really depends on the community cards. So wouldn't it actually be a better statistical advantage to stack the flop rather than one person's hole cards? If we know the flop and can signal each other our cards, we can then make much more informed decisions about which hands to play and which ones to not play. Knowing the flop only leaves two cards to chance. This seems to be a much, much better idea than simply giving my partner two aces and hoping someone doesn't have two fives or whatever happens to be in the flop.

Another approach I thought about is stacking a hand for my partner and somehow glimpsing or flashing the flop to him. However, I have absolutely no idea how to do either of those. Since I cant stack the flop and a hand at the same time, nor do I know how to flash the top four cards to my partner, it seems like the best statistical advantage would be to stack the flop, look at my cards, read my partners signals to know his cards, and then decide the best hand to play.

I'd be interested in everyone's take on all this. I'm also a little worried about the cut after shuffling. Some people cut the cards, some don't. We will be sitting next to each other, but that means one of us may have to deal with the cut each time we deal. I don't think either of us do a good enough tabled shift, even for the company we are playing with. The only option I can think of is to crimp and hope the person cuts to it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well.

James
reasons14
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109 Posts

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Since you are playing with partners, there is no need for both of you to have good hands much less know eachothers hands. My suggestion to you is that you stack your partner a hand and stack the flop during the hand. that is accomplished by you folding. Simply riffle to the desired card and pass it to the top and second deal the burn then you have it on the flop. So if you stacked him pocket 8's then folded, copped another 8 giving him trips you all would be in good condition. Now just work on your game play to where he can provoke a big bet to get the maximum pay out.

The games I play we use two decks per table to it I quite easy to stack while others are in play.

As for the cutting, 9 times about of 10 they will cut to the crimp. Most of they times they forget to cut if its not offered which makes it easy.

I am going to assume that you play no limit and the beauty of that is you can clean out someone in just one hand,

You might also want to look into cold decking. Where you deal everyone good hands so they all stay in /go all in but you or your partner obviously have the best hand so you bank pretty large in just one hand. Hope some of this helped.

Reasons
James F
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Atlanta
1097 Posts

Profile of James F
Thanks for the response Reasons. A lot of the stuff you recommended, although good advice, is beyond me and my partners capabilities. We can't second deal and most likely can't get away with shifting at the table. I might be able to but it would be a lot more risky than I would like.

When you say riffle to the desired card... How could I do this if I had no idea where the cards are? I really cant do much more than stacking either 2 cards for my partner or the flop. I'm working on doing both but it is proving somewhat hard to do convincingly. That may be because of the way I stack the deck and I plan on starting a new thread on that after I reply here.

Cold decking is definitely something we have been thinking about. However, neither of us know any tabled deck switches. My only plan for that is to watch Shade and attempt to try the switch used there and see if it looks any good in a real game. I know that probably sounds stupid since Shade is a movie and what not, but it's really the only tabled deck switch I know of or have seen. If someone could point me to a source where I could learn others (or that one properly), that would be great too.

The point with this whole thing is not to get too technical. We wanna stick fairly simple. I think Cold decking is as complicated as we are gonna let it get. I was just wondering if others thought stacking the flop and signaling each other our hands was more of an advantage than stacking one hand and signaling our cards to each other. It seems that stacking the flop would be much much much more beneficial to winning the most hands. Thanks for your thoughts.

James
reasons14
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109 Posts

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Here is what I mean my riffle. I don't really know how loose your game is but here is what flies. I have decently long hair, long enough to where it droops and you can't see my eyes. You can also cover yes simply by wearing shades. So it might look like I am looking forward while I am looking at the deck. I have already folded my hand so the heat is off my and it is on my partner. So when I mean riffle I mean back end tilted toward you in mech grip (left hand) and riffle with right thumb on left corner so you can see the indexes. This is so much easier then you think when the heat is off. Find the desired card and get it to the top. I side slip might even work.

As for the second dealing, to second deal a few hands and retain the top with a good pace would takes fair amounts of practice. Dealing one second is cake and would prob take you a day to get down.

As for cold decking and not getting technical this will be easy. At most home games there are two decks running. One in play and one being shuffled. If that is not the case then make it that way. (it makes the game faster) so when it is your turn to shuffle ( and you have folded) you act like you have a cell call and take the deck with you and do the switch out of site. People don't notice the deck is gone.

For the price of shade you can get Erndase's book and it will get you a lot further. Invest some time and a little money and it will treat you well.

Reasons
Expertmagician
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Why not use a marked deck...then you can not only demonstrate your ability for an almost guaranteed win when you or your partner shuffle...but, you can show people how you can gain an edge when anyone deals.

When people ude 2 decks they usually pay little attantion to the shuffler while the other round is dealt...so, there is plenty of time for the dirty work and/or to mark cards.

If you want to deter cheating, I would use a single deck, so your attention is only in one place. you can't watch a shuffler and a dealer at the same time. Funny how people think that 2 decks can protect them.
Long Island,

New York
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