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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Is it ok for a Christian to hate Gospel Magic? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Terry Owens
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I have been doing "Gospel Magic" for over 20 years but I have been performing for 37 years. Those I am familiar with do an excellent job presenting the gospel and peforming...Andre Kole'(designed for Copperfield), Toby Travis, Duane Laflin, Joseph Young a 3 time award winning performer, but does gospel magic. We're out there...a doing a great job for the art of magic, and helping bring hope to a hopeless generation.

Terry
Payne
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Seattle
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Quote:
On 2007-07-18 03:30, SSG wrote:

Try this church link: http://www.godlovessex.com/



Hey, I'd join this church Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
magicjy
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Big Stone Gap, VA
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Very well said Terry!

Matthew 6:33 Make the Kingdom of God your primary concern.
One of our responsibilities as Christians is to share the great news of the gospel with those who have never made a commitment to follow Jesus Christ. I believe God gave me a special talent of comedy and sleight of hand. I am using my talent in order to lead the lost to his son Jesus Christ.

Joseph Young
http://www.JOSEPHYOUNGMAGIC.COM
---
MAGIC is believing in yourself.
If you can do that, you can make anything happen. - Foka Gomez

Joseph Young
WWW.JOSEPHYOUNGMAGIC.COM
revlovejoy
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SSG- while a bit unorthodox, I have to ask: do you prefer the version of Christianity that has proclaimed sex to be a dirty-disgusting-awful thing that you save for the person you love? Is it not part of God's created order? Does the promotional material for that church imply an anything goes, no boundaries attitude?

Jesus was my Lord when I was a virgin. He remains my Lord as I am a married father of two. In the meantime, I did some work to get those two kids here, and I wasn't the one in labor.

I don't dispute your basic claim that the American church has become a personal-success machine of materialism. However, the example you cite may not fall into that. Between hedonism and asceticism is where 99% of humanity lives. Why should a normal part of human life be off limits to discussion for Christians?

To make this relevant to the topic, I'll add this: I still wouldn't use a notorious bawdy goshman product in Gospel magic.
rossmacrae
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Arlington, Virginia
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The same way this thread is veering precipitously into divisive side issues is the exact thing I was talking about above - getting away from the simple "good news" leads gospel magic toward areas where it tends to look ridiculous.
magic4jc
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Much like GlenD, I was attempting to stay out of this one. BUT, I have seen a couple of things that I cannot leave alone.

PutASpellOnMe, you asked the question "Where and how did God use the word Hate? I cross referenced it in a Strongs and am unable to find him saying he HATED anybody or anything."

Look in Mal 1:2-3
"I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

I hope this answers your question.

SSG, you stated "There's another problem, or danger, with gospel magic in that it's being adopted by many so called "seeker sensitive" churches that are seeking to be relevant to the culture rather than preach the atoning message of Jesus Christ."

I think churches need to have a message that the world sees as relevant.

Look at 1 Cor 9:22
"To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

Isn't that what "Creative Ministry", including Gospel Magic, is all about.

I, too, choose to become all things to all men, that some might be saved.

okay, I'm done now,
Mike
SSG
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My view on sex is that it's a wonderful gift a married couple can share. Because of the way the world markets sex, I'd be very wary about using bawdy methods to promote a formal discussion on the subject.
revlovejoy
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I certainly understand that SSG, and I don't dispute your point. My experience in growing up in an area heavily populated by spearatist communities like Amish and Mennonite, that often hide their pregnant women from public view, colors my perspective. In our society we have very little middle ground. When a church treats sexuality as completely taboo, the only alternative in society is the commodified pornographic version. A church that seeks to guide people in exploring married sexuality as not only a procreative activity (the only commandment from God that humanity has ever followed through on well) but capable of being enjoyable and fun, is a church that takes seriously Jesus' "life more abundantly." I am not exaggerating when I say I have met my fair share of fellow Christians who believe that the only possible godly sexual expression is for a wife to lie there and try to get pregnant and avoid getting close to an orgasm. Total submission. I am not sure how that differs much from the total submission prevalent in pronography.

Whether this one crosses the line in selling out to a dirty-mind culture, I am sure is debatable.
SSG
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I'm of the opinion that in the marriage bed, nothing is taboo.

I'm also not opposed to sexual discussions, but I sure don't want my church advertising "chains and whipped cream" to get more people to come through the doors.
Terry Owens
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I believe we are getting way off topic here folks...
ibm_usa
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I have been performing Gospel magic for 10 years. I don't necassarily call it my favorite branch of magic, but it is something that I feel that it must be done and I enjoy doing it. the thing I don't like about it is that I have been doing the same stuff for 10 years!
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Terry Holley
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In regard to sex and magic, I used to perform Rice's silk trick titled "Meet the Missus." In England it is known as "Mr. and Mrs. Green."

Maybe the church discussed above would be interested in me performing the effect for them sometime during their series. I'll meet Payne there and he can be my assistant!

In all seriousness, it sounds to me like this would be a great series of biblical messages for a sex-saturated world!

Now please excuse me while I go read the the Old Testament book of the Songs of Solomon!

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Thetruthteller
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Quote:
On 2007-07-18 15:18, magicjy wrote:

I am using my talent in order to lead the lost to his son Jesus Christ.



Just because some of us have chosen to take a different path does not mean that we are lost.

It's this presumptuous and self rightous attitude that turns many of us off when talking to the religiously inclined.
JohnWells
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The Southern Wild
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Quote:
On 2007-07-17 07:28, PutASpellOnMe wrote:
Where and how did God use the word Hate? I cross referenced it in a Strongs and am unable to find him saying he HATED anybody or anything.

Quote:
On 2007-07-09 04:41, JohnWells wrote:
God used the word "hate".



Well, dear heart, the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek (and Aramaic), so the Strong's is only so useful. For your information, Jesus uses the Greek word miseo, to hate or despise, several times.
leftytheclown
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As noted over and over, using magic to present the Gospel (Christ Crucified) is just a tool. Music is a tool that is used and bad Christian music is not very effective either. No one would want an incompetent doctor (mis)treating patients while proclaiming the "Good News". IMHO, poorly performed gospel magic is not "Good News".

There are many ways to show God's love. Franklin Graham reaches out to people via Samaritan's Purse. Mother Teresa served the helpless and hopeless most of her life to show how much Jesus loved them. However the Gospel is presented: magic, music, mission work, preaching, teaching, et al, they are only tools. As tools they need to be sharp.
Lefty (aka) Sterling Dare
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Joe Marotta
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[quote]On 2007-07-17 07:28, PutASpellOnMe wrote:
Where and how did God use the word Hate? I cross referenced it in a Strongs and am unable to find him saying he HATED anybody or anything.

[quote]
Hi Stacy, welcome to The Magic Café. We need more women in magic, especially Christian women. Welcome!

First thing that came to my mind was Malachi 2:16 where God says that He hates divorce. Also Psalm 97:9 tells us to hate evil. Psalm 5:5 says God hates all workers of iniquity.

I hope that helps some.
Steve Varro
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SSG:

Thanks for your comments on a couple effects sold by my company "Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co."

You mentioned that Don't Miss The Boat, "leaves the unchurched going away thinking "church people aren't all that bad" but without an idea that they are lost." Depending on how the effect is presented this could be true. On the other hand, not all Gospel effects are designed to point out that a person is lost, in fact many of them point to the fact that Jesus is a loving God, Friend and Savior. There are countless other lessons to be taught as well. Depending on how the above effect is presented it can be used to advise Christian not to get so involved with their own secular activities that they "Miss the Boat" on the opportunities God sets before them. It can also be used to advise the unchurched of the importance of not being lost.

You also mentioned THE CROSS MADE THE DIFFERENCE. We agree, this is a great effect, that's why we carry it. This is not one we developed, Ed Jarvis, President of the FCM is the one who came up with this fine effect. We handle a lot of effects designed by others and are always looking of new routines and effects to share with the Gospel Workers around the world.

In
STILL In HIS service

Steve Varro

International President of FCM

Owner/Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
ufo
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Its okay. Really. It is okay.
"What's your drug?" she asked. "Hope" he said, "The most addicting one of all."
Steve Varro
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Quote:
On 2007-07-19 19:22, Thetruthteller wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-07-18 15:18, magicjy wrote:

I am using my talent in order to lead the lost to his son Jesus Christ.



Just because some of us have chosen to take a different path does not mean that we are lost.

It's this presumptuous and self rightous attitude that turns many of us off when talking to the religiously inclined.


I'm reminded of the small child who becomes seperated from his parent in a large mall. The mother, nearing panic, searches everywhere for the child, who is eventually reunited with their mother, much to her relief. Once reunited the child explains; "I wasn't lost, I knew where I was all the time!".

There are many people in the world who are lost in one aspect or another, but they have no idea they are lost. Nevertheless, they are still lost. Letting the child determine whether or not he is lost is not always the best course of action. Just as the mother above.
STILL In HIS service

Steve Varro

International President of FCM

Owner/Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
Steve Varro
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Nashville TN.
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Sorry the last line should have read... Just ASK the mother above.

Why is it always easier to see our spelling errors AFTER we make a post? Smile
STILL In HIS service

Steve Varro

International President of FCM

Owner/Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
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