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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » Bit torrent sites (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Andy the cardician
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Banester,

Agree that we can report this and have the torrent removed. However, the next poster will be up soon with a new one. Additionally, there are a big bunch of torrent servers out there.

Where will the data be? Agree that the original poster will not forever send this around. The first posting will have to come from the own PC of the poster. Once some copies are out in the world, some of those guys will act as multiplier, using their own PC to spread the data.

You are also correct that the book in question is probably not available as stand alone file, but bundled with some other e-books. Such that you have to download the whole bunch. It does not mean that in the future someone will not put up a torrent with just that one e-book. So the problem remains.

As for the software requirements, I am afraid that the world has become much easier.
- Packer software such as Winzip or RAR is free for trials. You can simply reinstall them after using up your number of free trials. However, the web offers enough serial numbers to get your product steady. Google "Serial and Key-Gen" and you know what I mean.
- The torrent software if free of charge.
- The adobe reader is free of charge.

Agree that is sounds awfully complex, but for the kids out there, it is a piece of cake.

This is the world today, I am afraid . . .

Andy
Cards never lie
Strangelittleman
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Sydney Aus
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Actually, I've used Torrentz (yep-spelt with a z by the hip youngsters) before, and still do. NOTHING COPYWRITED before people start building a pyre, I use them regularly with friends to get OUR material to each other, for editing, approval, graphics etc - its easy and we can all be downloading from each other, hence making it speedier. Its great for working together like that (we all live in different states over here).

How it works is simple - download a torrent program - run said program - download the 'torrent' (the file that gives you the details) - torrent program starts downloading from the sources (users with file) - when finished it is compacted into its orig format - unzip/unpack with free software.

Now heres the part that's been mentioned - the USERS are the ones with the file...nothing with a torrent downloaded from a 'central' host other than the 'starting' file - the one that tells the torrent program where to connect, and that's normally stored on mulitple servers....

Modern torrent programs actually allow you to 'select' which files you want aswell, so sorry Andy - you can download individual files already. This is a problem for lots of industries unfortunetly. Personally, I don't see it as a threat to magic....the kids who collect this stuff (and that's the majority) don't really have time to read 101 books, its the braggin about how much 'stuff' I have...and appealing to their sense of right and wrong can (most of the time) be a complete waste of time.

Example - one kid who talked about his collection asked about a trick he saw. 'Thats in tarbell..vol 3' I say which gets the reply 'oh, ok, so hows it done, I don't read that much'......makes me wonder why he downloaded a huge list (2 a4 pages) of stuff....
MickeyPainless
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I have no clue how to use a Torrent or really what it is but it IS scary how much free (stolen) stuff you can find out there! When I first got into coin magic I did a search for JB Bobo's bio and within 3 pages a simple point and click site revealed his MCM with click able index and all! I was shocked to say the least! *For the record I bought and paid for my own copy of the book!
Is there any way to somehow password protect the DVD's you sell or a non re-recordable disc? I'm pretty clueless in the ways of Internet and electronics etc. but I know with some software (although these kids seem to be able to crack anything) once you download it on your system, you can't load it on another computer. Just a thought and for the sake of you creators I hope something can be done! I personally am more than happy to put up what always seems to be very fair pricing for such awesome effects! Good luck in you fight and if I want one of your products I will gladly pay your asking price!
Mick
Andy the cardician
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Thanks for the info - learned something new . . .

I wonder how many of the kids that are downloading the stuff into their computers would have bought the book/DVD/e-book, if it was not available on the net.

Andy
Cards never lie
DoctorAmazo
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C'mon guys! How many of you have NEVER borrowed (or lent) a book, lecture notes, DVD, etc. from/to a magician buddy? Or bought/sold the same on eBay? Or in the "magic deal" section of THIS VERY SITE! Or shared a particular move you just learned with the guys at the magic club?

None of those things are illegal. But ALL deprive someone of potential sales/income, which seems to be the consistent factor when deciding what's "ethical" here! Any idea what the most unethical threat to the income of those who produce written work is? Public libraries! They let people read books FOR FREE (Gasp!)

How many of the "authors" here are solely responsible for ALL the concepts they write about and sell? If your hand is in the air right now, I'd suggest you are lying to yourself. Not much of what you write about is original to you. You stand on the shoulders of giants. If your hand isn't raised, then I think it's pretty hypocritical to whine about "rights" and "intellectual property".
Banester
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Ya Doc, those kids can even check out those library books and scan them for the internet. Some libraries have even gone onto the internet so you can read from the comfort of your home for a small fee.

Quote:
Agree that is sounds awfully complex, but for the kids out there, it is a piece of cake.


I would have to agree that most of these kids are just downloading and putting it away in there CD folders. I was at a LAN get together and some of the younger kids were bragging about the newest movie they got or how they were watching one of the movies before it came out on the big screen.

I would agree that these kids would not be buying the items in question. How many of them do you think are performing? I think the movie and music industry have a lot more to worry about.

I have had manuels for work sent to me via e-mail and I print them out, reading a lot on the screen is something I really do not want to do. I also would not be printing out 300 pages of material. I think what Amazo said has more of a detrimental effect that the bit torrents.
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives
become filled with joy
-Doug Henning-
ccccchunt
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I agree that it is a pain in the rear to spend hours reading on the computer screen. Although e-book format magic documents are readily available on the internet, I think the much bigger issue is the trading of full length movies on these Torrent sites. Many are available both as full "ISO" images or smaller ripped wmv/avi files. Last time I checked, the local library did not rent any of the newest 500 magic titles out on the market.

Chris
BlackShadow
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Quote:
On 2007-08-23 02:17, MickeyPainless wrote:
I have no clue how to use a Torrent or really what it is but it IS scary how much free (stolen) stuff you can find out there! When I first got into coin magic I did a search for JB Bobo's bio and within 3 pages a simple point and click site revealed his MCM with click able index and all! I was shocked to say the least! *For the record I bought and paid for my own copy of the book!


Bobo's MCM is now public domain (Copyright expires after a set time). You can get legal copies, for example, on the Learned Pig. There's a view in magic that it's not right to obtain anything, unless you pay, but there is plenty of legal public domain stuff to be had, free of charge. A lot of Hugard stuff is PD, so is Houdini, Downs, Hoffman etc etc etc.
bugjack
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Mickey, you may have paid for your copies of Bobo's, but not one cent of that payment went to the long deceased Mr. Bobo or any of his heirs... nor to any of the coin magic greats who created the foundations of the routines. It just went to the retailer, the wholesaler and, finally, the publisher who simply laid out and printed the public domain text. Not sure how this financial chain of events is any more ethically grounded than legallly downloading a free p.d. copy.
Andy the cardician
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Agree that there is a bug difference between sharing material that is no longer copyright protected and that is still protected by law.
Cards never lie
Joshua Barrett
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Iv wondered why this is never talked about. maybe some of the older folks are just unaware there are five or six major magic sharing torrent "communitys" I know of. any single one of them has three thousand plus dvd, and books for download.

I started looking for this a few weeks back when a guy was in the local magic shop and wanted to see a few things. to make a long story short he got on one of those torrent sites and got some videos. he won;t be buying from the shop anytime soon he got it all free.

I'm not sure of the long term effects but it bothers me when magic "secrets" are now common knowledge
C. Loubard
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Doctor

it iis illegal if the product being downloaded is still in copyright.

Why? once you download it to your harddrive it is now a copy of the original which is illegal. furthermore, what you download I am sure is a copy of a copy of a copy, which is illegal.
Banester
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Loubard, the difference is that the poster is more than likely not providing the whole file/files. If you need 40 files to create the original DVD then he/she may post 39 of them with the intent that someone else will provide that last file. So in essence he is not providing the DVD material since it can not be run in the form he posted it, that is until you get that last one to combine it.

Someone also stated about creating a password or some type of copy blocker on a DVD. Most publishers attempt to do that; however, hackers will come out with a "fix" within days in order to copy or rip it. There are also alot, a lot of valid programs out there that are designed to "back-up" your DVD's or CD's. Blue ray and HD DVD are already being copied, so it is really something that is not prudent.

For some of you guys that have published work out there, here is something you can do. Put up bad files related to your own works, when someone downloads the bad file the whole copy will be useless. After some time there will be enough bad files out there to discourage people from attempting to download it. Just so you know, there are major companies doing this now (HBO, MGM, Disney to name a few).

Joshua, if someone does have a copyright on any of those items they can contact the service provider with a cease and disset order. BitTorrent does not offer its users anonymity!
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives
become filled with joy
-Doug Henning-
silverking
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Within Banesters post is contained the only current solution that works for creators of pirated material. (my own experience is related to music, but the same goes here for magic DVD's and other related works).
It requires the original creators to go on the offensive.

To elaborate on Banesters informative post,

You generate multiple damaged files which DUPLICATE the actual files that are copies of your work and which live out in Torrent land.
You then "seed" your damaged copies out in vast numbers, and make them available 24 hours a day (by leaving your computer turned on, and your Bit Torrent program booted and active).

If actively pursued for long enough, your damaged files could eventually outnumber the "good" files, and folks will never be able to re-construct the original "good" file.
When word gets out about this, (which it does) amongst those who download this stuff in quantity....they will begin to see it's a waste of time to download anything related to your product due to the high percentage of damaged files.

If you're a creator, and you can't make sense of this post, then hire somebody who can, and go out and protect your work.
Filesharing is here, it's not going away anytime soon......those who are proactive about protecting their material wherever it's being bootlegged are the only ones with a hope of success in reducing pirate versions of their material.

That it's wrong, and unfair is obvious......but talking about it results in nothing at all....only beating the pirates at their own game works.

Seeding damaged copies of your OWN work really does work.

( there are geeks who do this for a tidy profit in the music business. They offer a service to musicians and record labels to seed identical (but damaged) versions of music files already circulating the net. The really crafty perfectly match the file size of the damaged file to the "straight" file. Once this is done, the beginning of the end is under way, the pirates have no way to identify the good file from the bad file.)
Jim Hazen
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Elizabeth Colorado
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Just to interject from a legal standpoint on p2p downloads. oh and for the record I buy my magic!!

It IS ILLEGAL to post copyrighted material on a torrent site.
It is LEGAL to download said copyrighted material
Once material is downloaded its is ILLEGAL to seed it.
Cheety
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Just to add to this there are torrent sites that are purely dedicated to magic. every dvd released by illusionist can be downloaded from torrents and even other clients such as usenext/limerwire. you can also download e-books, most of the L&L videos.
Mostly Harmless ^_^
Ling.Ling1337
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OK, I'd like to give my input, being very knowledgeable about such things:

1. Files are not at all hosted on the bittorent sites. If you contact a bittorrent site saying "Take down my eBook! Take down my DVD!" They will shrug and say "We host the .torrent, the users host the .PDF or .AVI" They have a basically bulletproof defense. Thepiratebay.org has quite literally told HUGE-time lawyers (top representatives of Time Warner, etc) to f*** off, F*** a tree, all other manner of obscenities and insults, simply because they are invincible.

2. The leviathan concept: Let's say that you hacked into the Pirate Bay's servers, because you are a computer genius (by the way, government's top tech guys have tried, it's not possible) and you destroyed their server. Guess what? They have servers all around the globe. And either to spite the industry or legitimately to take it's place, another site (either from the Pirate Bay guys or another host site) will pop up and be hugely publicized among the pirate community. In fact, the RIAA or MPAA, I can't remember, set up a trap site with legitimate files and did everything in it's power to publicize it, and word got out- that it was a trap site. A smart hacker had looked at the code for the site from the inside and saw that it collected IP addresses, and was hosted at an IP trackable to the RIAA/MPAA. It was taken down within a week of release.

3. Beyond torrents. Torrents are for now the number one means of obtaining files illegaly. It is totally community driven, and it's driven by a community of the some of the top minds in their field- the hackers/nerds/scripters, whatever. They are the ones who could find out where you live and your phone number, only if they received an email from you. Yes, they are real. No, they are not the typical propagandistic (is that word? lol) rapists/murders/stalkers/people who want to blow up your house/the Pentagon, they are simply wizards with a terminal. And even if you went to every torrent server in the world and burned them all down, the community would create a new, better medium or move on to a different, already exisiting one before you could fly home.

Whew! That was a long post- but trust me, this information is legitimate.
Tim Jahn
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I just checked all of this out for myself. I really can't believe what I saw. I found "Surfaced" on one of these sites!! Surfaced man!!! This freaking thing just came out a few days ago. WTF!!

Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
mattisdx
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Quote:
On 2007-07-08 11:37, ScottRSullivan wrote:
Is it ethical (or even legal) to walk by a store being robbed, look in for a minute, and then just keep walking without calling 911?

A friend makes an illegal copy of a movie ticket. Is it right to use the ticket?

A friend makes an illegal copy of a movie DVD. Is it right to watch that?

I think the answer to all three is the same and is pretty cut and dry.


You can live by the rules and die like a slave, or take a risk and have some fun
Hushai
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Quote:
On 2007-08-23 02:17, MickeyPainless wrote:
I have no clue how to use a Torrent or really what it is...


Thank you, MickeyPainless, for admitting that! I don't know either. Smile what IS a "Torrent?" This is a new one on me.
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