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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
I use up to a dozen red silks in my manipulation act. I'm now considering Diamond cut silks which apparently give the illusion of being a full 18-inch silk.
If that's the case, my hands are in for a needed break! Do any of you find otherwise with Diamond cut silks? Always looking forward to your posts, Randy Stewart |
magician_carter New user 79 Posts |
I use diamond cut silks in most of my silk manipulations. In fact, the only time I use a regular silk is when I am vanishing a coin, ring or anything else. They're easier to handle and lay persons really don't notice they are not full silks.
Carter
Without Magic, Life is Boring.
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mghia Veteran user Kymystical 387 Posts |
I just bought one a few weeks ago and was disappointed in diamond cuts.
Sure it can fit in the same space as a 12" silk but that is because there is not much material. Also it can fit in a TT as claimed but you have to jam it down to fit your thumb in and even then I do not recommend it. This silk does not lay right and does not look like an 18" silk to me. It looks like what it is, a thin piece of material. Maybe some are cut better. This one is manufactured by Jay Scott Berry. Maybe you can get away with using them but if you have to pick one, there is no side by side comparison. You really can tell it is thinner side by side. The only thing that it matches is the length of an 18” silk. Maybe the Berry one would have looked more convincing if it was a heavier weight. Maybe others who use them have tips to help them look fuller. Hopefully the answer is more than waving it around really fast to give the appearance of a full silk. |
Paul Menzel Special user Boise, Idaho 530 Posts |
I don't know that I would want to replaced full silks with diamond cut for most effects, and there are some that just won't work because of the shape, but I think they are great for TT productions and vanishes. They really do give the appearance of more material than the 9" squares (which, to me, now look silly by comparison).
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
That's what I feared mghia and Paul. I just don't see how diamond cut silks will provide the same cover I need for finale.
I'm sticking to the original approach and plan. Always looking forward to your posts, Randy Stewart |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
We all seem to have the same feelings and experiences with the diamond cuts. Never use them if you can use a full 18" silk. The audience needs to be conditioned to always believing that they are as represented. Diamond cut silks simply don't look as good but they will fit where others won't.
I do use them in canes. I never use them in barehanded vanishes. PM me and I will give you what I do instead. It simply looks better. And often I am stuck with a 24" silk and a dove harness. Of course, the TT would not work, but it does. A pet peeve of mine is a magic act that flashes diamond silks. Sorry! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Well, I have to disagree with you all, Diamond Cut silks are very nice and the quality I got is up with current silks on the market.
The corners can very, put for dye tubes, hank balls, umbrellas, and production of a quanity at once as in "Rainbow Silk" production from Japan, they are the best. Why would I want to use my Rice silks or P&A silks for these types of tricks. As a matter of fact, I have changed all my production and stuffing silks to this new Diamond Cut silk. Note: If the silk would be thinker, I would not even fit in a TT. I have seen some really poor silks in my magic life, and these are good quality silks. If you are not going to open out the silk square, then a diamond cut is perfect. |
Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
Diamond cut silks have their place. But never iron them - makes them look like a cut down piece of silk. Let them wrinkle to the point where the silk looks billowy. Wrinkles really look bad in a freshly ironed silk. Never store the silk in a tip, hank ball or other gimmick, for several hours. It's best to store it in a manner such that the silk can breathe, relaxing the wrinkles so that they aren't "crisp".
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Bill,
I agree with you that it does seem poor judgment to use an expensive silk when a cheap one will do. But in my silvering years (if that is politically correct for geriatric) I have come to the conclusion that my audience is due the best I can provide. Granted I have boxes of sacred silks that are not to be used, but replaceable silks get well used and are expected to get torn, stained, and down right ugly. After all, they are replaceable and they get replaced. The moment is distinctive. Nobody will remember how much money we saved. Yet, I do use cheap rope in my act and lots of it. But I don't have a rope trick on the market either. If I did, things might be different. But who would trust a rope trick from an old cowboy? What would we know about rope? I don't try to conserve rope either. The key is keeping collectibles and consumables separate. Keep posting. We agree more than you think. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
matthewjohnson Loyal user Canada 239 Posts |
Just a quick note to say my piece about diamond cut silks. I love them!
I have a 7 minute manipulation act and the only silks I use in this act are diamond cut. I too used only regular 18" silks before I developed the act but thought I would give them a try. I now use 7 in my act and although they do not have quite the same look as a regular 18" (Agreed) they can fit in places regular 18" silks cannot & lets be honest do the audience really know the difference? I don't think they do, unless they have sat through countless magicians silk acts! To the audience a silk is a silk if you can produce your load from it and it takes up less space why not use it. Just my thoughts! What are yours. |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
For years I have lectured against using diamond cut silks when there was an alternative. Yet I'm the magician’s silk importer and import diamond cut silks. The volume keeps increasing!
I fully understand why they are so popular (and even use them). They are gimmicks and not regular silks and I've finally accepted that. It still bothers me to see dealers (some my wholesale customers) misrepresent the sizes. They are ONLY measured by the hemmed edge and never by the diagonal. The 12" fits a TT and looks like an 18". As a customer, you should be paying a little less for a 12" diamond cut as you do for a 24" square. If it doesn't look like an 18" square it isn't a 12" diamond cut. Don't pay 12" diamond cut prices for it. An 18" diamond cut won't fit into a TT. There is no 36" diamond cut. The 24" is the largest imported. It looks like a 36" square. It should cost about the same as a 36" square. A 36" diamond cut would look like a 51" square silk. There is no such thing. The widest pure silk available is only 90cm wide. It is important to keep real diamond cut silks ironed to hold their shape. Good ones are cut and hemmed differently from good square silks. Consequently, they are not as strong as square silks. Enjoy your silk magic. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
TheGreatNancini Veteran user Ohio 373 Posts |
Bob,
I have not used diamond silks, but was wondering the other day if they would perhaps work better in my Abbotts Mutilated Parasol? I do this effect in every show, and the ones on the parasol are beginning to look tacky. I am going to replace them and had thought about trying diamond cuts, but after reading this thread am not so sure. I would appreciate some thoughts on this. Thank you Nanci |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Nanci,
Of course they will work. Serger hems do not add strength but strength is not a factor for this trick. Optically, they may even be better because there are no square corners in the fabric of an umbrella top. The actual drawback is that good ones are expensive compared to squares. They cost nearly twice as much. (Example: a 12" diamond cut that looks like an 18" square costs $4.00 versus an 18" square costing $2.75.) Otherwise, they are all cut from the same bolts of silk as the squares. Including black and white, there are thirteen different colors. An advantage is that they take the space of a 9" square! They will even go into a TT. Scheme! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
TheGreatNancini Veteran user Ohio 373 Posts |
Thank you Bob. I understand the price difference, but when it comes to making my act look as absolutely best as it can be, I believe the price would be worth it. I would prefer one really good looking prop at any time to ten so-so ones. Thank you for your help. Now all I have to do is find a dealer who sells them. I assume most do, I have just never asked.
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Nanci,
I think your approach to building prop inventory is very smart. Unfortunately there are too many prop suppliers out there that build a prop that exposes the trick's workings but lack the quality of materials and workmanship that you could actually use professionally on stage. I'm not sure we will ever have "truth in labeling" for magic props. But we do need a category that says "Shows how trick works but you'll still need serviceable props not included to actually perform this trick". Check your email. I sent you a dealer price list for silk. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
TheGreatNancini Veteran user Ohio 373 Posts |
Bob,
Thank you for the email! You are spot on about the "truth in labeling" for magic props! I do believe we could start a whole new thread about how many of us have been burned through the years, paying hard earned money for rip off garbage! (I have actually thrown several props away rather than resell or even give them to other magicians). I have become a very picky and discerning customer when it comes to the magic world! I love our performance art and want to do my part to protect it. Nanci |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Nanci,
There are several threads here about that very thing. I totally agree with you and I wish advertisers of magic gear would be less deceptive. Regan
Mister Mystery
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
I remade an older Abbott's parasol for Dale Salwak. I tried using diamond silks but found I had to go to small of a diamond size to fit the length requirements. I ended up making half diagonal silks.
Drop me a line at the regular email if you need more information. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Richard,
Several changes have likely been made in non-square silks since the Abbott's parasol. First is that we have gone from silks made in Japan to silks made in China. Today's best hems are light years ahead of the old single thread rolled hems in the older silks from Japan. However, the best diamond cut silks do not use them. Due to the cut of the cloth, diamond cuts have to use the inferior serger hem. One of greatest differences is the way diamond cuts are cut from the cloth today. There has been quite a learning curve here. The old ones were cut from streamers to avoid waste with the resulting weave of the material not at 45 degrees to the corners. (They hung very differently from the most distant corners from the way real square silks do. The new design diamond cuts are cut to match the look given by square silks draped from the corner.) The central corners of the early diamonds were not equal. It was a parallelogram but not a diamond. The new diamonds simply take more cloth to make due to the cut. There is waste now. Now the center corners are at the midway point and match. Even better, now a diamond cut hangs like a square silk held by the corner. I don’t doubt that you had to compensate for the changes in appearances. Fortunately, the magician is in good hands. Today’s diamond cuts were not made for the parasol. Retro fitting is often a project for an artist. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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