Hello, I am new to the IBM, but the three meetings I've been to there have been laymen there.

Laypeople we're even there for "Show and Tell" night. Isn't this exposure? Why do people bring lay guests to a magician meeting?

And what do you guys usually do at your meetings? I thought there would be a lot more performing and getting feedback on effects, there is really no such thing.

It could be because there were laypeople there. This tends to put a damper on things at meetings.

Mark.

Robert,

At Ring 364, a first timer must show us a trick to be admitted. We don't want to open the doors to lay people, but we do want to be able to open the doors to those who show a beginning interest. We do have two exceptions that allow lay people to attend the meetings.

1) If a child wants to join the club, we invite the parents stay and watch the first meeting just so they are comfortable with what their child is getting into. That is only allowed once. (Exposure is allowed in these meetings.)

2) If we have an open meeting like a picnic, Christmas party, etc. where family, friends, and the general public is invited. (Exposure is not allowed in these meetings.)

Until we appear again,
Kipp Sherry

Kipp, our Ring is forming a youth affiliate group under Magic Youth Int'l. We feel that parental involvement and support is vital to sustaining a pre-teen's interest and advancement in magic. The MYA affiliate will meet an hour before the monthly Ring meeting. We encourage parents to attend with their kids and stay through each Ring meeting. I don't view this as "exposure" as much as I do encouraging the parent and child to be an inter-supportive team. After all, who is more likely to be the young teen's prime guinea pig for new effects and prime problem solver when complications arise?

Thanks for responding guys.

mrunge, I have been to 3 consecutive meetings and I can assure you that was not an issue. Laypeople have been to all the meetings I've been to. Some men even bring the wives and families. Laypeople were there for show and tell night.

Kipp Sherry, I did not have to do a trick at all to come to the meetings I have been to. Laypeople are allowed at all the meetings I've been to. I know because people introduce their "guests" which is usually family members.

Hmmm...well then, I don't know. Every club is different.

Mark.

But aren't there codes the rings have to follow?

Most lay people are our guests & must perform something!!

There are no "codes" that Rings must abide by. Each club is different and can pretty much do whatever they want.

The IBM (and SAM) agreed to abide by the magicians oath and expect it's members to do the same. But, as everyone knows, there are a LOT of people out there who think that rules really don't apply to them.

It's sad. It's also interesting that, unless I'm missing something (I can't find it), the IBM's own website does not even talk about the magicians' oath.

Mark.

Do we really need a rule or more respect for fellow magicians?

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- I think Mark will bear me out on this. The first thing I do in my lecture is ascertain that the audience is all magicians. It matters to me.

Absolutely. Bob's right. It matters to us as well.

Our club meetings are closed just for that reason. In order to attend, one is invited AFTER being "qualified" (sales term), making sure they are sincerely interested in magic and not hoping to attend just to find out how things are done or to "see a show."

It's too bad things get to that, but if one is serious about the art of magic and abiding by the magicians oath, then these are just some of the things that might be done.

It might not work for all, but it works great for us.

Mark.

In New York City, Ring 26, they meet twice a month.
First there is the regular meeting night. These are mostly open meetings where guests are invited. These consist of performance only shows. Other times, if a lecturer is scheduled, it is a closed meeting for the magicians only.

Also once a month Ring 26 conducts a Lab night. This has a theme for the night and is a show and tell. Again, these are for magicians only. Currently, the Lab chairman is Doug Edwards and he occasionally brings down some of his antique magic from his vast collection to demo and explain.

I brought a layperson to see a Shoot Ogawa lecture at our IBM Ring. Seriously, how the heck could a layperson follow Shoot's hardcore style? Heck, even most of the magicians were bug-eyed at him! The layperson enjoyed watching some hardcore sleight of hand magic and didn't give a care when the teaching came up!

That's my rule.... bring a layperson to a lecture if it is a hardcore lecture so the lay person cannot follow anything but the performance.

This issue is at the heart of what is wrong with many rings, mine included. Nothing is sacred anymore. What was once a group of dedicated people with similar ideas is now a mixed group with little respect for the art and its secrets.

Cheers to Kipp and his ring who only allow magicians to attend their meetings! Such standards encourage sharing, respect, and loyalty.