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splice Inner circle Canada 1246 Posts |
Not only that, tommy. If I were running the tournament this wouldn't work. Robert's rules of poker, section 1, proper behaviour:
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The following is not permitted: Discussing how you can all fold to the blind and wait for the other table to break is collusion. Feel free to try it without discussing it (much the same as "check it down" when you're two big stacks against a small stack that is all in), but the wise player will take advantage of the situation by raising the blind whenever he can. |
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gadfly3d Special user 963 Posts |
Everyone folding while the other players play is a cartel problem-that is the small stacks on the table where everyone is folding is going to be at a sever disadvantage due to the escalation of the blinds.
This is why a large stack, despite what some seem to think, should play less hands and a short stack should be more aggressive. Also I don't know about Europe but in virtually all of the tournaments I have played in then U.S. have had some variation of the hand by hand rule. Gil Scott |
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fless New user 68 Posts |
Hmm, as far as I know, the "fold to the blinds" tactic on one table will fail due to table balancing, i.e. the casino/site levels out to near-equal number of players att each table.
In my humble opinion, playing conservatively with a big stack is poor poker. The steep (top-heavy) prize distribution in multi-table tourneys rewards risk-taking in order to reach the, say, top-3 prizes instead of playing conservatively to make it to the lower money prizes. The flip side of the steep prize distribution is that it also rewards percentage-sharing among strong players, which in turn yields collusion, outspoken or not. Just my $0.02... |
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I think I agree with Fless.
Bear in mind, that collusion in tournament play is not designed to get a guaranteed win. It is simply supposed to improve your odds over the average Joe. The players still have to be good in order to survive so they end up at the same table as the losers get washed away. But, as the number of tables shrink, their odds increase as they survive. Of course, if they get lucky and play together early, they will likely survive longer. ---- It is just like marking a deck....the amature marks each card for suite and value. But, the professional just marks important cards (or clusters/groups of cards) for value. He is trying to improve his odds and reduce his risk of exposure. Collusion is an odds game in a tournament. While, I have not gone through the math, that is my 2 cents too
Long Island,
New York |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
This complaint is taken from a player on poker forum:
"I played in the weekly final last night for the Borgata event. When we were down to two tables I opened up the other table to see how they were getting on. Couldn't believe what I saw, they were openly colluding to make sure they got all the players on their table into the prizes. They were telling each other what hands they had, all folding down to the blinds, any hand that was played was checked all the way to the river, during these hands they were saying what they had and all this was conveyed via the chat. I, aswell as another player on my table, complained instantly to support and was assured an investigation would take place. I received an e-mail this morning with the findings of this, they decided this was perfectly acceptable tactics. It's nice to know that Microgaming encourage what I'm sure most players would see as cheating. Rather than get involved in this sort of play I think I shall just give this site a miss in the future. Good luck to all those that continue to play on there and I hope you use their version of 'tactics' to your full advantage." This seems to me to be the same story that I was told but I only got the jist of it. I think players have read this and taken up the advice but using the concept in casino's now or at least someone suggested it at the table. Its the openness that is interesting to me. Even if your caught colluding seems nothing much happens. There are two guys at my local casino who collude and they are hopless and every one and his brother know they do it but no one stops them playing. Its become like a joke.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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gadfly3d Special user 963 Posts |
Bess wrote: "In my humble opinion, playing conservatively with a big stack is poor poker. The steep (top-heavy) prize distribution in multi-table tourneys rewards risk-taking in order to reach the, say, top-3 prizes instead of playing conservatively to make it to the lower money prizes."
The point is not to outlast to climb the money ladder. The point I was making is that the large stack doesn't need to be involved in marginal situations and can make the shorter stacks take the worst of it. Two top poker pros who agree with me are John Juanda and Daniel Negreneau. Gil Scott |
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fless New user 68 Posts |
Gadfly3d; in your post you said:
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On 2007-07-26 17:14, gadfly3d wrote: and that's bad poker in my opinion. Of course you should not (deliberately) take the worst of it. Stack-size considerations in poker tourneys are too complex to summarize in I few lines, but the biggest advantage with a large stack is that you buy the pot when you are up against a small stack with a marginal hand. The fact that you can afford a mistake and he/she cannot will often win you the pot if you (the large stack) play it aggressively. Obviously there is a point when a stack is so small, a few big blinds in a no-limit tourney, that it makes sense to play a random hand just to avoid bust by the blind pressure... |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I agree that tourney play is complex, for example though:
Three guys left, one has $1 the other two have a $1million each. The guy with $1 is praying that the other two play wild and go all in so one of them gets knocked out by the other, so that he moves into 2nd place without betting his last buck. In princible that is what this ploy is all about.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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