

gdw Inner circle 4816 Posts 
Hi, I am new to stack work, and I am trying to find, or develop, a stack where by each card's location can be determined via the same formula.
I know that there is a stack where each card is a simple equation based on the preceding card, but this only works for knowing which card follows which, and not for the specific location of each individual card. I know that Si Stebbins allows for each card's location to be calculated after a glimpse of the bottom card, but that is not quite what I am looking for. I would like to be able to take a single formula that allows me to take any card, and using it's value and suit, calculate its position in the stack, then of course shift it based on the bottom card, if the deck has been cut, thus displacing the stack's start and end points. Obviously I am looking for a mathematical out to actually memorizing a deck. Remembering one equation is easier than a whole deck, lol. I just made a thread regarding the possibility of this within a 4 or 5 out faro stack, but discovered with some research and math work that the calculations can get a bit too complicated. If anyone is interested in what I came up with, see here; http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......tart=0#2 Keep in mind, all the math work ended up being for a FOUR faro stack, and NOT the originally proposed 5 faro stack. Thanks Glenn Thanks, Glenn
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." I won't forget you Robert. 
gdw Inner circle 4816 Posts 
Again, I am not looking for a stack where you add this many to one card to get the next, etc, but rather one where each card's position can be found with the same single equation.
Also, the deck would be preferably random looking and not one like Si with alternating colours and rotation etc. I know this may sound like I am asking for the ridiculous/impossible, but I iomagine it would be actually plausible, and like I mentioned, it can be done with a 4 faro stack, but it is still a bit too complicated. Thanks again Glenn
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." I won't forget you Robert. 
Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts 
It sounds from the description of the "looseness" of the suit order you want that you're possibly looking for a memorised stack rather than an algorithmic one.
I've never really had any problem calculating where a card is in a Stebbins stack. A bottom peek and it's all over. For difficult cases, the extra thinking time is easily disguised as heavyduty mental effort  which it actually is! 
gdw Inner circle 4816 Posts 
Basically, I would like for the randomness of the order to be not as simple and un random as Stebbins.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." I won't forget you Robert. 
mrunge Inner circle Charleston, SC 3717 Posts 
Check out "The Osterlind Breakthrough Card System" by Richard Osterlind. That should work for you. It's a nice stack and the cards look about as random as one could get.
Mark. 
gdw Inner circle 4816 Posts 
Hmm, yes, I have heard mention of it. Is it one where each card's position can be determined via the same mathematical work?
Also, I saw a booklet that was meant as an accompaniment for the system, but where would I find the actual system? Thanks Glenn
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." I won't forget you Robert. 
mrunge Inner circle Charleston, SC 3717 Posts 
Here is a link for more info.
http://www.ronjo.com/page/R/PROD/breakcrdsystm While a fantastic stack, it's not a stack that you can mathematically know what the 14th card is and then tell someone to count to the 29th card and tell them what the card is as well. If that's what you're after, well...hmmm...good question. Mark. 
gdw Inner circle 4816 Posts 
Yeah, that is what I am looking for. NOT one where each card is determined by the previous, but rather where each card has a specific location which is determined by the card it's self through one equation.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." I won't forget you Robert. 
Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts 
If you or the spec cuts the Osterlind stack, don't you still need to peek, though?

mrunge Inner circle Charleston, SC 3717 Posts 
Yes...You would still need to know the bottom card.
Mark. 
Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts 
Hmmm. He doesn't want to peek. This [i]is[/] a puzzler. What about a marked deck to peek the top card rather than peeking the bottom one? Work backwards and Bob's your uncle.

Dennis Loomis 1943  2013 2113 Posts 
I think gdw does understand that you would have to peek if the deck has been cut. (Unless you have a marked deck, or some work in the deck which allows you to return the deck to home position without peeking. A Short Card, Corner Short, or Scallop Short are the most commonly used ways to achieve this.) You always have to know where you are in your stack for any algorithmic or memorized stack to help you.
Many formulas of the type he's seeking do exist but are, of necessity, very complicated. See my comments in the thread on Doug Dyment's Quick Stack, also in the Shuffled not Stirred area. Doug's set of rules could be rendered into a single formula, but it would be a very complex formula and probably one which is harder to learn than just learning Doug's set of rules. Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com 
mrunge Inner circle Charleston, SC 3717 Posts 
I was thinking he was looking for something that he can tell what the, say, 23rd card is and then what the, say, 42nd card is, etc... It's kind of like give me a number and I'll tell you what the name of the card is at that location thing.
Is this not right? Mark. 
magico Special user Connecticut 814 Posts 
The Lusthaus Card System might be what your looking for. If the spectator names any card, you will instantly know its location in the deck. Conversely, if the spectator names any number from 1 to 52, you will instantly know the name of the card at that location. However you can not get into using a faro shuffle.

gdw Inner circle 4816 Posts 
Quote:
On 20070725 17:58, mrunge wrote: Well pretty much most stacks can allow for that. I am looking for one where math is used to tie each card to its location using just that card itself, not by using other cards around it.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." I won't forget you Robert. 
mrunge Inner circle Charleston, SC 3717 Posts 
Ahhh...thanks for clearing that up for me.
Hmmm...??? Mark. 
Morphy New user Germany 52 Posts 
Is someone familiar with the M3DStack?
It uses a two dimensional map to find the card. 
gdw Inner circle 4816 Posts 
Hmm, never heard of it. But u've got me interested.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." I won't forget you Robert. 
Morphy New user Germany 52 Posts 
M3d is the "Mind Map Mem Deck" by Dr. HansChristian Solka.
He has written a Ebook (66 Pages) about it, and you can download it for free! Unfortunately it's not in english, and I don't know if there is a translated version anywhere. But even if you can not speak german, you should look at the pictures very carefully and perhaps you get the idea behind the mindmapping system. Here you can download 3 of his books: Mind Mapping for memorized decks, M3D and M3dEncore. http://www.solka2.privat.tonline.de/memdeck/mindmapping.htm (I think he is also here at the magic Café.) Edit: I just looked up his posts at the magic Café. His name is HCS and he only posted 6 times, because his english is not very good. But.. in on of his posts, he posted a link to an english explanation of the m3dstack: Here it is: http://www.solka2.privat.tonline.de/mem......_eng.pdf 
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