Good morning GODSQUAD.



Maybe I'm being a bit critical here but I'm going to post it anyway. I went on the site this morning. I had heard that only 300 of W.H. effect were going to be released so when I saw it was available, I ordered it right away, along with a 6 pack of cards. I didn't want to miss out on getting one of the 300. Anyway, after placing the order I decided to order another effect. Now here I am kicking myself thinking, wow I should have waited so I wouldn't have had to pay two seperate shipping charges. Not that it is going to break me, but what the heck. I decided to contact them and ask if they could combine the two orders. They were minutes appart and infact only 2 order numbers appart.
They wrote back 4 hours later which was nice, but they said it would be impossible to combine the orders.
Is this a big deal? Not really. Is it my fault for pulling the trigger too quick on ordering the first stuff to quick? I guess. I do know that in the past I have made that mistake before with a differant on-line magic shop and they were able to accomidate my request.
Like I said, not a big deal, but it is my first dealings with the Theory 11 shop.
JPK

It's really funny that Ellusionist is doing a lot of the criticizing of Theory 11 on their own site. Perhaps not direct insults, but at least backhanded comments.

Anyone know why jbayme, the bucks, and wayne houchin left ellusionist to start theory11?

There is a tinge of irony here: wannabe conjurer Brad Christian expropriates magic created by others and fashions it into a brand identity. These guys are established magicians -- nay, artists -- who have expropriated E's business model in order to sell their original tricks. The site looks the same; the videos look the same; there's the same emphasis on "hitting the streets"; the same super-duper special BLACK cards; the same high-priced, one-trick videos. All of these guys are super-excited about the project now, and early customers report excellent service. Well, of course, the service is quick and personal -- T11 is in the midst of a launch! By chance I went into a Walgreen's during it's grand opening and sales staff would not leave me alone. Now when I go to the same store I have to hunt, beg, club in order to get information from a disaffected, middle-aged adult not-too pleased with where her life is going. Do not fall prey to the fallacy of uninterrupted trends.

I think the reason that T11 looks like "E" has more to do with the fact that the guys who were responsible for "E"'s look, and now the ones making T11. Dana H., Wayne H. Makes you wonder how long "E" is going to try to keep up the look they have now.
JPK

The Bucks were responsible for E's look on there webpage. So you can figure out why it looks similar for yourself.

T11 has a lot of things to be excited about, but in the end, I suppose it is just a regurgitation of E (weren't they trying to go for something original?). In the end, I see it as a gritty commercial magic shop with all of the same hyped up stuff. Certainly, the output of material from respected magicians will be admirable, but I am curious as to where this will go in a few years...

Guys...

This is just the beginning. There is a ton more stuff coming that will change the way you look at Theory11. You can bet on it.

When will that be?

My first impression was that it was a nice look to the store. Good layout and what not. I did however, find that the 1-800 number doesn't work in my area, so when there was a mysterious problem with my order, I was out of luck. So then I went to the troubleshooting (and had to create another account for this), I submitted a ticket and two hours later received a reply (not horrible under the circumstances, but not ideal either).

However, although not the most terrific first experience there in the service department, one must understand that opening up a business is a lot of work and especially with an online store, there are lots of glitches to work out at first. That's okay! In time I will likely try again. I wish them the best, and I hope they take the store in the positive direction that they are hoping to, and that would be actually beneficial to magicians (new and veterans, street and stage, hobbyists and working professionals).

and Blindside writes:


Big deal. Some set designers, writers, and directors keep imitating their previous work, whatever, it's still a copy. What's interesting is that I cited five or six different things and this is the only one challenged, an implicit confirmation the other charges more or less find their target. All of that stuff was already apart of E's brand identity.

Similar? Definitely. Then again, I like the magicians associated with Theory 11 a lot more than the people associated with other sites.

Hmm. I've been going over pretty much the whole T11 website, and found something that seemed peculiar to me.
Some people have said that W:H stole "Distortion" from Cyril's "moving pips thing". While I understand that Distortion is basically meant to be as a visual transposition instead of the chosen card revealing their's, did W:H make it before Cyril? On T11, it says...

"Wayne Houchin (Former Consultant to Criss Angel & Cyril)"

...I can't know for sure though.

Noticed on the site a link for wholesalers to get in touch with them about distributing the effects. So, unlike E, whose effects are unavailable elsewhere (with a few exceptions), it looks like T11 tricks may make it into the brick and mortars.

FYI, Cyril did not create the moving pips, he just performed it.

The reality is that the hyped up and supposely revolutionary 'Therory 11' site so far turned out to be nothing else then a clever marketing idea with the purpose to sell effects by well known and creative magicians. That is a fact and was confirmed by a trusted source.

I am not bashing anyone here but I think it is not cool to try sell people or make them believe that Theory 11 can or could improve their magic or performance...as many perhaps thought...

On the other hand the Theory 11 team, which is composed of competent people, will perhaps listen to your feedback and ideas on 'what Theory 11 could do for your creativity as a magician once the '1 on 1' will be active. It would be great that those 11 creative minds would really give an '1 on 1' advice to up-comming performers showing them how to develop ideas and be original instead of just being another web store to purchase hyped up effects.

That would actually be really great and if it doesn't happen maybe someone else will catch up on it and do it...

Would you like to buy a punctuation mark?

Have you actually Googled Theory 11? If you do, you will find it on the second page. Plus, you will find all of this thread, and a lot of other nonsense about Theory 11.

Oh well Bill, if people don't want to take some good meant advice from experienced and respected performers in this industry like you, who 'knows' what makes and what it takes to turn magic into something special instead of just buying a moving pip card that was already marketed...how many years ago? Then I don't know...You can't hammer it in. Actually there should be a Zauberschule (German for Magicschool) like in Munich where you first learn the basics of a traditional routine like Cups and Balls, Chop Cup, Billard Balls, Card Manipulation etc. A school where people get an understanding of what magic is and it should be. It's like comparing fast food to a home made dinner.

Then can I repost my point from aroudn the same time??

an excellent post, and yes I know what your point is.. we all know thoery11 is a game.. a message and advertising.. A successful and confident magician who is creative and develops original routines or molds an existing routine so it fits their personality is yes what everyone wants and should be, part of that process is exercising your brain a bit. I love cryptology, puzzles, secrets and anything that will stimulate my brain, so from my standpoint, thoery11 is an interesting exercise. In that it takes some thinking and logic, and seeing things outside the box. but it's nothing more than a game..

your comment about depending on and dreaming of the ultimate trick that will make you shine without much effort. sorry.. yes some people feel like that... personally I already have enough in the library of books.. the tarbels, sphinx's, jinx's, mahatma's the books by goldstein, hugard, koran, berglas, andruzzi and others. I'm not looking for something that's going to make me shine with zero effort.. it doesn't exist.. but what does is a way I can occupy some time and exercise my brain, its like someone doing a crossword.. whats the point in that?? they find it interesting, fun and challenging.

Luke Jermay makes a great point in his article and not caring about the new hype, the latest black deck of cards, or the newest hyped up effect, he talks about looking at the old, re-inventing and using what you know, to perform a miracle. re-inventing, enhancing and creating, takes effort, and intelligence. If you sit and hit BUY and someone serves you up what you need, then you never will get to the point of being able to create. I have quite a few note books here full of thoughts and ideas on effects, twists, and thinking, and from that a few effects have been born, that I created, some new, some similar but different to existing ideas. Some of those after years of tweaking are now being looked at to be marketed through a dealer who likes them, but the one thing that was required was thinking and EFFORT.

the 'game' is teaching that it takes EFFORT and thinking to get anywhere... regardless of the endgame... if its a shop.. fine.. if its an effort.. fine.. I don't actually care... the 'thing' isn't important to me... I don't think in any post have I said that... to me.. the important thing was the puzzle.. and solving it..

you also have to think about the target demographic for the campaign.. if you're the only person in the room not nodding to the advert.. then the advert isn't for you.. Like companies like ellusionist, who's target audience is mainly the younger 'excitable' magician keen to consume and soak up the hype, Kenners campaign is also more than likely pointed at a demographic,

everyone has the right to be excited about whatever they want, and everyone has the right to pursue what they wish, in whatever way they feel. on the 31st for me.. the logic puzzle is over.. I've given my brain some exercise and I'll be happy... Many will be happy because they will probably have new stuff to look at.. Kenner will be happy as he's succeeded in creating a talking point, and you'll be happy that you don't have to read about it any more..

some will be happy that they have discovered that they can think about something, and discover a solution.. that is whats important in magic... solving the problem.. as if we don't think and solve.. there will be nothing new..

that's just my own personal opinion... and I respect you own views as well, as I hope you respect mine..

bottom line is that your probably NOT their targeted demographic.. if the younger generation WANT to buy stuff from theory11, for the love of god, let them have some free choice please?? yes creativity IS the center of magic, theres nothign better than coming up with an effect yourself, but if one younger person gets a kick from something they brought/read/found there and decides to create something.. are you going to shoot them down in flames... for heavens sake, its a shop, a business, their aim is to sell things, how they sell things, the service they give and the information they release it down to them, it's their choice.. as should it be for those wanting to pursue or not the route they like..

I'm 34 and I would have loved to have the internet resources now on hand when I was 14,15 etc.. somewhere like thoery11 would have been a goldmine for me, but I chose books.. I've created effects, and the feelings great, and I buy effects, hell I might even buy the something from theory11.. just because I can... are you going to burn me at the stake as well ?

respectfully yours

I'm out of here off for a well earn break in Ireland..