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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » MAGIC - The Magazine For Magicians » » Joshua Jay's Comments in the August Issue (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Fastlife
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What does everybody think about Joshua Jay's comments about Jamy Ian Swiss in his August column?
Sean-Dylan
RevJohn
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Will have to wait till my issue arrives! Now you have me curious.

RevJohn
Magiguy
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I love Joshua's work, but in this case I would have to agree with Jamy, especially when taking into account the bit about "the perception of the deck's otherwise presumed ordinariness." Most laymen have never seen or heard of a card clip. Foreign items do, in fact, diminish the sense of the ordinary, just as an unfamiliar card back (or front) may arouse suspicion. I really enjoyed Jamy's article, and although I was not 100% in agreement with all of it, this particular statement rang true with me.
Kaylan
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I tried to check out the effect, to see just how the card clip was utilized in the effect, but it does not appear in the December 2005 issue of Magic as Joshua stated it did. I checked the Nov. 2005, Dec. 2004 and December 2006 issues - not there either and I'm done searching for now - anyone know where someone can REALLY find this effect??

Kaylan
chr!s
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Magiguy,i have to disagree with you.
joshua jays argument was not that the card clip should be considered an ordinary object,simply that a layperson would appreciate that this is a professional,rather than a 'guy who can do a few tricks'.
and as for your view that an unusual back design of a card will diminish its otherwise innocence,again I must disagree.im in the uk,where not only are bridge sized cards the norm,the vast majority of laypeople have never even heard of bicycle brand cards before.i still use poker sized bikes,on a professional basis,and have never been asked if the cards are 'unusual'.
I appreciate mr swiss' view aswell,i admit,but I have to agree with josh on this.

chr!s
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magico
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Quote:
On 2007-08-01 08:07, Kaylan wrote:
I tried to check out the effect, to see just how the card clip was utilized in the effect, but it does not appear in the December 2005 issue of Magic as Joshua stated it did. I checked the Nov. 2005, Dec. 2004 and December 2006 issues - not there either and I'm done searching for now - anyone know where someone can REALLY find this effect??

Kaylan


Try the August 2005 issue
Kaylan
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Thanks, magico, but the effect was not in there, either. That issue had two Jeff Pierce tricks, but they involved lighters and rubber bands.

I'll just have to check all my issues for the past few years I guess. Thanks, Josh! Smile

Kaylan
magico
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I figure it might be in there since the year 2005 was mention and when I did a search on Magic Magazine it came up with Jeff's name under three issue the other ones were I believe 2003
ASW
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Quote:
On 2007-07-31 23:26, Magiguy wrote:
I love Joshua's work, but in this case I would have to agree with Jamy, especially when taking into account the bit about "the perception of the deck's otherwise presumed ordinariness." Most laymen have never seen or heard of a card clip. Foreign items do, in fact, diminish the sense of the ordinary, just as an unfamiliar card back (or front) may arouse suspicion. I really enjoyed Jamy's article, and although I was not 100% in agreement with all of it, this particular statement rang true with me.


Layman: "What's that?"

Magician: "I use it to keep my cards in casino condition."

Layman: "Okay."

I think the "problem" only exists when a magician uses a card clip but the performer doesn't fit the image of someone who would have a discrete black anodized clip, or any other distinguished personal item for the discerning gentleman. Similarly, Swiss might be uncomfortable carrying a Mont Blanc pen, or wearing a Breitling Navitimer or a pair of Church's handmade shoes.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
Magiguy
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Good point, ASW.
Holtzclaw
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Casino cards are not kept in a "clip" to keep them in new condition. They are kept in a stack, sometimes in a cardboard box. The card clip is an accessory only used by magicians. Not gamblers, not card cheats. You are making the mistake in thinking that because the clip is exotic, it is therefore elegant and beautiful to the spectator. You might as well have a signed card appear under your PK magnet.
The spectator cannot have a comfortable place to go for an answer. If there is something exotic attached to those cards, that's where they can go.

By the way, Jamy carries a Mont Blanc pen. He values quality and elegance in all aspects of dress and accessory.
ASW
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A layman won't know that and the explanation suits. It's all about plausibility. A Porper clip is an elegant item that raises no alarm bells. To think otherwise is over-extending your imagination and making incorrect assumptions about the way laypeople think. If Swiss uses a Mont Blanc then surely he must be able to make the leap - as laymen do - that the card clip serves an OBVIOUS and NON-SUSPICIOUS purpose. At least to any reasonably sensible layman - but perhapos not to some overly neurotic cardmen.

I think the essential point that Swiss is probably making (I haven't read any of the articles but I think I get the gist here) is valid: don't use anything that looks like a stupid magician's prop unless you're okay with audiences thinking you're the kind of person who uses stupid magician's props.

Besides, what's a PK magnet?
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
JTW
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I remember the first time I saw a person carry cigarettes in a metal case. At first I didn't know what it was for then I saw the cigs. Seemed to me to be a very elegant way of carrying ones vice.
Silly Walter the Polar Bear
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Quote:
On 2007-08-11 11:11, Holtzclaw wrote:
Casino cards are not kept in a "clip" to keep them in new condition. They are kept in a stack, sometimes in a cardboard box. The card clip is an accessory only used by magicians. Not gamblers, not card cheats. You are making the mistake in thinking that because the clip is exotic, it is therefore elegant and beautiful to the spectator. You might as well have a signed card appear under your PK magnet.
The spectator cannot have a comfortable place to go for an answer. If there is something exotic attached to those cards, that's where they can go.

By the way, Jamy carries a Mont Blanc pen. He values quality and elegance in all aspects of dress and accessory.


You might as well have written "I don't perform magic for lay people so I am just going to prattle on to appear intelligent".
Holtzclaw
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Wow. My intelligence was just put into question by someone named Silly Walter the Polar Bear. I perform for lay people as my sole living. Try entertaining adults sometime.

I am immediately reminded why I never visit. It's like talking to a big green wall.
cheesewrestler
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 21:22, Holtzclaw wrote:
Wow. My intelligence was just put into question by someone named Silly Walter the Polar Bear. I perform for lay people as my sole living. Try entertaining adults sometime.

I am immediately reminded why I never visit. It's like talking to a big green wall.


polar bears are highly intelligent.


AND they are often sighted swimming far out at sea, miles away from the nearest land.


can YOU say the same?
RevJohn
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The funny part about this was that when I have used a card clip, the only time that someone has questioned its presence was accusing me of using it as a shiner -- in an ambitious card routine.

So for them, it made sense for it to be there but as a cheating tool (which in the end made no sense at all).

My question is this, and an honest question... Who has pulled out a card clip and had someone question why it was there? Curious is all.

RevJohn

P.S. Yes, my issue finally was delivered after the mailman read this month's reviews.
TheAmbitiousCard
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I wonder if most laymen have the pre-conceived notion that magicians are clueless, social misfits that like to show off. They love their cards and love keeping them in pretty clips.

If so, should we leave our card clips at home and skip the kool kards?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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Silly Walter the Polar Bear
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Quote:
On 2007-08-16 10:52, cheesewrestler wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-15 21:22, Holtzclaw wrote:
Wow. My intelligence was just put into question by someone named Silly Walter the Polar Bear. I perform for lay people as my sole living. Try entertaining adults sometime.

I am immediately reminded why I never visit. It's like talking to a big green wall.


polar bears are highly intelligent.


AND they are often sighted swimming far out at sea, miles away from the nearest land.


can YOU say the same?


Uhhh. OK.
Jonathan Townsend
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Dude... if you're going to take out some fey coin purse and not expect to get snaps you may as well take out other fetish items as well.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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