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Silly Walter the Polar Bear
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Quote:
On 2007-08-14 22:38, Gary Dayton wrote:
I like this presentation very much. Those who nit-pick about the cards out of order, extra cards, and other "discrepancies" need to chill. You are looking at it as a magician. This plays well for the 900,999.999% of the population-- meaning your audiences.


I hope your job doesn't require attention to detail.
JTW
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I'm a bit dismayed at the lack of humility that some that have posted on this subject exhibit...specifically when talking about the method of this effect.

It ****** me off that people have no problems discussing how Mr. Owen's effect is accomplished, ESPECIALLY when they don't even own the manuscript. Please move this thread to Secret Sessions!

My favorite post has been
Quote:
"...if the faces of the black cards didn't change."


Seriously, how many times did you have to watch it to figure that out? There is a new breed of armchair "theoretical magicians" (T-M's) out there patiently sifting through video after video on YouTube. They are very quick to tell you that after watching a video a handful of times that "it's pretty easy to figure out." The only positive thing is that these "T-M's" spend hours at their computers and do rudimentary and poorly performed tricks for their mothers.

Now that is off my chest...

The effect is brilliant AND well thought out. If handled properly, that effect is as close to real magic with cards that I've seen.

Peace out
Silly Walter the Polar Bear
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 17:59, JTW wrote:My favorite post has been
Quote:
"...if the faces of the black cards didn't change."


Seriously, how many times did you have to watch it to figure that out?


Once. I perform an Oil and Water where the faces of the black cards change, as well. I got busted when I performed it...by a card player (a card player would be very likely to remember the values of cards, especially if only 6 cards are being used).

I had to fix it so it didn't happen a second time.

Now, I am not saying that you don't have a valid argument - there are guys who will watch a video over and over, pausing it at what they are hoping is the right moment to see if they can figure out what happened, but that isn't always the case.

I don't know if you perform Oil and Water or if you perform for lay people (and it is OK if you don't), but not all discrepancies will go unnoticed. As a matter of fact, you will have a tougher time passing off some of these discrepant moves and effects to a real audience.
paisa23
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Ahhhhh, WOW!!!!
THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
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Guy Hollingworth's Oil and Water in his London Collection video is definitely something to look into.
paisa23
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 20:12, THEGUY26 wrote:
Guy Hollingworth's Oil and Water in his London Collection video is definitely something to look into.


I have Drawing Room Deceptions in a drawer somewhere. What page, please, and is it terribly sleight-oriented? I'm a fan of O&W, but there are simpler methods. Guy is a hard act to follow, or learn from.
THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
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Page 39, I think. It uses the exact same sleights as Waving the Aces.
Joey Stalin
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I can usually work out what an acronym means from the context it is used in, but what is "FASIDU"?
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
-The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything.

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augur
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 17:59, JTW wrote:
...My favorite post has been
Quote:
"...if the faces of the black cards didn't change."


Seriously, how many times did you have to watch it to figure that out?...


I aim to please. Smile
I noticed it the first time, but that is irrelevant. If the discrepancies that me and others pointed out had been taken care of beforehand, I would've never noticed anything no matter how many times I watched it.

Quote:
There is a new breed of armchair "theoretical magicians" (T-M's) out there patiently sifting through video after video on YouTube. They are very quick to tell you that after watching a video a handful of times that "it's pretty easy to figure out." The only positive thing is that these "T-M's" spend hours at their computers and do rudimentary and poorly performed tricks for their mothers.


I guess these T-M's are not entitled to an opinion, then? How's that for being humble?
Besides the fact that you know these T-M's are going to watch the video over and over again, only to try and figure it out, only further validates my point.

Quote:
The effect is brilliant AND well thought out. If handled properly, that effect is as close to real magic with cards that I've seen.


I agree, and all I've said is that it could be improved to look even closer to real magic.
augur
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Quote:
On 2007-08-16 02:52, Joey Stalin wrote:
I can usually work out what an acronym means from the context it is used in, but what is "FASIDU"?

FASDIU - From A Shuffled Deck In Use.
Chris SD
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 17:59, JTW wrote:
I'm a bit dismayed at the lack of humility that some that have posted on this subject exhibit...specifically when talking about the method of this effect.


Like I said earlier in the thread, that's one of the things that chaps my hide about this place.
Without fail, whenever an effect is being discussed, the method is tipped far more often than not. People just keep dropping subtle "hints" or letting little things slip, until the method becomes apparent.

Although it's published, it saw very limited distribution. I remember a well known performer at a convention last year performing this (and not during a lecture) and being bombarded by questions about whether or not it was published and where they could find it. (Why they would think that's appropriate is beyond me.) Said performer was more or less very tight about it, for this exact reason. It's a beautiful effect, and now it's become an Internet plaything.
RevJohn
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The booklet that this comes from has strong stuff in it. I would suggest supporting the creator and picking it up. He is also a humble enough guy that he includes an alternative ending of the effect that a friend come up with, called Lava Lamp. Good stuff all around.

For those who like it, great, and for those who don't, that works too. Guess it comes down to that old thing called personal taste. I, for one, love it and find that I get a good reaction from it.

RevJohn
edh
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Quote:
Although it's published, it saw very limited distribution. I remember a well known performer at a convention last year performing this (and not during a lecture) and being bombarded by questions about whether or not it was published and where they could find it. (Why they would think that's appropriate is beyond me.) Said performer was more or less very tight about it, for this exact reason. It's a beautiful effect, and now it's become an Internet plaything.


Chris SD, I don't understand the first part of this paragraph. Why would it be inappropriate to ask if a particular routine is in print and where they could find it? It's not like them asking if he could teach the effect to them. All that was wanted was where they might be able to purchase the effect.

If I see something I like, I will ask what the name of the effect is and if it is available.

No harm in asking, in my opinion.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Magic Enhancer
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Robert Haas
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Does anyone have a link to where I may be able to purchase this effect? If so, please let me know.

Robert Haas
http://www.MagicEnhancer.com
Robert Haas
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Quality magic products for the working professional.
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closeupcardician
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Justin Teeman Moore, OK
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Great Clip! Great effect! Thanks for sharing.
"Magic as art cannot live without love. Love of some kind. There are novels without love, other arts without love. But there can be no magic without love." - Rodney Reyes
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2007-08-16 23:29, KobiHasOneEye wrote:
Does anyone have a link to where I may be able to purchase this effect? If so, please let me know.

Robert Haas
http://www.MagicEnhancer.com


As posted by MSC455...
Quote:
As described in the video content:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is Sebastien Clergue/Korta performing 'Lava Lamp' his variation upon Anthony Owen's Oil and Water routine, 'SOBW'. Lava Lamp and SOBW are both explained in Anthony's 2003 book for magicians 'Some Tricks'. SOBW was first explained on Anthony's 1998 instructional videotape for magicians, 'Dynamic Walkaround Magic', which has recently been re-released on DVD. Some Tricks and Dynamic Walkaround Magic are both available from TVMagic.co.uk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Best,
Charles
...to all the coins I've dropped here
JTW
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Polar Bear,
I do perform for laypeople...a lot. I'm not playing my own trumpet, but I perform a minimum of 15 shows per week for real people from all over the world.

"Subtleties" aren't supposed to get attention hence, their designation as subtleties. If they are garnering attention, either the subtlety isn't subtle or the performer is casting to much emphasis on it. I find generally (especially with well thought out material) the latter is the case.

The value of the cards is irrelevant to this effect. I perform a few versions of Oil and Water (including this, Mr. Owen's). The people who notice certain discrepancies are looking to figure the thing out, NOT enjoy it for pure entertainment. Which, of course, is only my opinion.


Augur,
T-M's are certainly entitled to their opinion. However, most do not have the ethics to edit a post on a public bulletin board so that it does not include hints, or even more specific clues, to a method.


Edh,
The issue is one of professional conduct. If the performer offers the name of the effect or cites a source, then by all means, you may ask. If the performer doesn't offer anything, then don't ask. Enjoy the moment of a well executed routine. To me, it is liken to seeing a performer taking out a pack of cards and one of the audience yelling out, "I've seen this one before." It is rude and shouldn't be done. Again, these are only opinions...
augur
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 11:24, JTW wrote:
...The value of the cards is irrelevant to this effect. I perform a few versions of Oil and Water (including this, Mr. Owen's). The people who notice certain discrepancies are looking to figure the thing out, NOT enjoy it for pure entertainment. Which, of course, is only my opinion.

Augur,
T-M's are certainly entitled to their opinion. However, most do not have the ethics to edit a post on a public bulletin board so that it does not include hints, or even more specific clues, to a method.

...these are only opinions...

And a very good opinion, one might add, since you've had the benefit of performing this effect for real people. However, the only "bad" thing (if you can call it bad) said about this effect (which I, and most people who posted in this thread, think is great and well thought out, as you said in your earlier post) was a suggestion on how to improve the effect, specially if your are going to present it in video format. Now as for the method being tipped, I only pointed out what I noticed, not how what I noticed was accomplished. In fact if you read the whole thread, you'll noticed that method hints were being provided before I joined the thread.
As for the discrepancies not being noticed, well, sometimes they will be noticed as some people have pointed it out.
And I do agree with you that once you start hinting the method it should be moved into the secret area of the forums, even though my post count doesn't allow me to go into that area. But then again, my motive for joining the Café was never the secrets (I joined in 2003, just look at my post count), rather the wealth of knowledge the members here seem to possess in pointing out the right resource for your quest in bettering yourself as a magician. (I do use the search feature a lot, and it has been always helpful.) I'm only saying this in hope that you understand that my motive for pointing out what I did was in hope that it would help in bettering what I already think is a great effect; only a small contribution to a community that has helped me greatly.
ASW
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Silly Walter, you are cracking me up.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

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weisby
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Some tricks are not available from TVMagic.co.uk. I've contacted them and asked if it will be there. They have an E-Book that's named 'Some More Tricks', but the Oil and Water routine is not in that book.
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