I've reviewed the literature on utilizing "oversized" or "undersized" single solid rings in Hilliard's "Greater Magic," Farelli's "The Odin Rings," Fitzkee's "Rings in Your Fingers" and Mendoza's "The Book of John."

For those who have experience with or knowledge of the use of this type of ring, I would appreciate knowing the following:

1. Does the use of an oversized or undersized ring improve the deceptiveness of the various "false count" moves?

2. Are there linking or unlinking moves that benefit from or rely solely on an oversized or undersized ring.? Does the quality of these moves justify the use of this type of ring?

Thank you.

It can be very deceptive. Check out Jack Miller's routine. He has some great work with an oversize ring.

I have a 10" set. Can anyone tell me where I can get an oversized ring? Or do I have to go to a 12"? Any help would be appreciated.

If I correctly understand the descriptions I've read, a 12" ring would be too large for a 10" set. According to "Greater Magic," the ideal size of an oversized ring for a 10" set would be a ring whose circumference is just large enough to encircle a 10" ring. In other words, the 10" ring should barely pass through the oversized ring.

Owen Magic Supreme sells oversized and undersized rings. When buying this kind of ring, it is important to have the material, thickness and finish (color) match your other rings.

An old thread resurrected! Now that Owen Supreme have stopped trading does anybody know of a dealer selling Linking Rings with the option of matching oversize or undersize singles?

You may be able to get an oversized single made for you by Proline. They sell singles. You might be able to request one that has been expanded slightly beyond the standard size.

https://proline-magic.net/products


The crucial thing is that the oversize one match the rest of the set in terms of thickness and finish, so this may mean committing to purchasing a full set from Proline.

[quote]On Mar 22, 2022, Jean André wrote:
You may be able to get an oversized single made for you by Proline. They sell singles. You might be able to request one that has been expanded slightly.....
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Thanks for this, I have made an enquiry. There are some older posts (2017) on here complaining about Proline service so I await the response with interest.

RNT and Tim Starr both made oversized rings. Tim Starr may still be making them. In any event, there should be several of them floating around. Though I doubt if most people would even notice the difference.

Quick update, I've just received my special order of 14 10" rings from Proline,including a couple of oversize rings, an undersize ring and a magnetic locking ring. I placed the order in March and tweaked it over the subsequent couple of months. I found Cliff Wiggs very straightforward to deal with and the finished rings are excellent

I got a set of oversized rings made by a friend of mine, who happens to be a stainless steel smith. It cost me around 50 bucks for a 4 ring set. I had to do a little polishing myself but it was worth it. They handle well even though they are a bit on the heavy side. Nothing too strenous. I told him to weld them with a bit of spring to them so they sound better. Just an idea if you have a local stainless steel smith that you trust to make a set

If anybody has a set with an oversized ring that they no longer need, I'm interested.
LF 8" or 10". The set does not have to be complete.

My interest and experimentation with oversize /undersize rings continues. My main motivation was to clean up/improve the deception of ring switches (a la Odin count). Just a single oversize ring does that in spades, but it needs to be large enough. My Tayade oversize and undersize rings are relatively snug, fine for a switch of one ring for two singles (such as the Al Baker threaded manoevre), but a tad snug for passing over a linked double (possible but occasional binding). In contrast my Proline set are looser and pass with ease, the trade off being that the size difference is more noticeable so careful routining is needed.
Add to the switch advantage the fact that you can use the oversize for some keyless linking with chains of 3 or 4 and I am surprised the sets are not more widely available. Definite gap in the market.

I wish I could remember how tight the original RNT rings were. It was something that I just was not interested in at the time though the Richard Ross routine was out and I think he used an oversized ring if my memory is correct.

Here is an example of the sort of count possible with an oversize ring
https://vimeo.com/782045193

8 ring set, that includes "an Al Baker" pair, so only one truly loose ring

Looked very good and deceptive. This effect truly is a classic!

I find using 4x 12 inch Rings the odin count letting the Rings drop about half a ring width from hand to hand is very convincing and actually let the 2 singles drop the full width entirely works so well. Have always found large ring routines great for stage and seeing people like Pop Haydn using 15 inch or so is always inspiring.

The following clip of a Cabaret show recently Im still editing into another show reel for my website shows the count I mean briefly at the start
It sells to the audience as I throw 2 of the rings up and they come down linked etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbTbiNh36BA

Thanks for sharing Brent, a well worked routine. Just for the record I would call your count (which works well) a "Drop count" rather than Odin count?

Yes, agree..drop count...cheers

I have continued to work on 8 ring counts, the latest (using a single large ring) is intended as a final display, rather than an initial count. It uses principles I have never seen in print
https://vimeo.com/843453614

In performance it will benefit from patter and attention control

I have just discovered this rather clever 5 ring routine by Tonny van Rhee, which uses 2 oversize rings. Available from Glycklaren, who also sell a suitable 5 ring set.

https://youtu.be/7Fh7JvJuAjM?si=qzLNJ4YXKIXSKvjj