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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » My friend keeps ruining my Si Stebbins setup! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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matt kemp
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For those of you who use a stacked deck, this trick will probably be familiar. I give the deck a false shuffle and I have the spectator put the deck behind his back. He cuts the deck, takes the top card off of the deck, reverses it, sticks it back in the deck. I take a peek at the bottom card as he brings it out from behind his back and I can name the only reversed card in the deck. I spread the deck and my prediction is right.

So to begin, my friend has no concept of magic. I doubt he would even pick up on a DL if I did not do something as blatant as change the top card of the deck. Anyway, my friend keeps shuffling my deck after I do this trick to him, and then asks me to do it again (which I obviously can't). Then he gives me a hard time for about 5 minutes and he keeps asking me to do it for the rest of the night. (Yes, I am good friends with this guy, but we are 18 years old and we just like to give each other a hard time.) What's even more annoying, is that he keeps telling me that I forced a card on him (remember, he has no concept of magic AND I am clearly not forcing a card).

So what do you recommend that I do?
I can't:
Do a deck switch
Use a gimmicked deck
Use a false shuffle to convince him that the deck is not shuffled
Say a clever line to get him to lay off on the shuffling

My only solution so far is to buy a marked deck....

Also, I know that magic IS about the presentation and the entertainment. However, in this case I am just looking to fool someone.
matt kemp
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One more thing that I forgot in the first post...

I know this is the area for marked/arranged decks, but are there any other good tricks that might also stump even the most aware spectator? My ideas are crazy man's handcuffs, ambitious card, or I could just get really good with my thumb tip. I figure I can ask that question because the majority of my post is about marked/arranged decks.
benjie84
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Maybe you could do a version of the trick, but obviously not the same way. perhaps use a peek or even force a card. I like to use a peek. its a good "thought of prediction". or just have him think of a card and take a guess...got a 1 in 52 shot, lol! I actually did that twice in one night, back to back! freaked me out more than the spectators!!
MickeyPainless
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Uh, don't do magic for the guy! My sister is a pain in the b*tt when it comes to magic and whenever I'm up visiting my folks Mom always wants to see whats new but if sis is around I just won't do it!
korttihai_82
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There is an version of that trick with a spectator shuffled deck in one of Simon Lovell videos. Sorry I cant be more spesific cos I just don't remember where it was.

I have used it a lot to fool magicians but really its so easy and effective that it might fit your need. Effect is allmost the same. Spectator shuffles the deck and gives it as many cuts as he wants. Behind his back he can take the top or bottom card, or actually even one from the middle if he wants, it doesn't matter. Reverses it and squares the deck. The deck is spread to show only one card face down and you know it. Oh, and did I mention it can be borrowed deck Smile

Also marked deck could accomplish the same thing as well.

J-M
Billgussen
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Let's get this straight. You and your buddy like to take each other down a peg for fun, right? Then you go off and do something that he can't do -- can't even guess on how it's done -- and you expect him to sit there and take it? You're performing magic for the wrong friend. Even if you found the perfect next trick to do, it would't impress him because it's his job as your friend to "not be impressed by you."

The only way to perform magic for this guy is to shift the dynamic. Maybe tell him that you're trying to perfect a trick, and you want him to let you know if you're tipping a secret. In other words, make him the "expert" on what the "average" audience would see, and ask him for advice. (Afterwards, if he has advice, listen to it.) Get it out of the area of friendly competition (or any other competition for that matter), and get it into an area where he can enjoy what you're doing without feeling feeling that you're one-upping him.

Good luck,
Bill
Hideo Kato
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Say "You shuffled the deck, so Si Stebbins are destroyed".

or

Say "Among magicinas, we have iron rules, one of which is "Don't repeat same trick".

or

Say "Good Bye".

Hideo Kato
John Nesbit
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Would you really say the "first" quote ? lol

The second one is best. Followed by...

"Syonara". (Kato-san) Smile

John
matt kemp
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Well, it just bugs me that he is convinced that he figured out my trick because he is convinced that I forced a card on him. I have tried explaining to him that I did not force a card on him. The problem is that he wants to see THAT specific trick done after he has shuffled the deck. I'm thinking the only way to do this is to use a marked deck and tell him his card after I have spread the deck so I can see the face down card.

Also, Billgussen, I do have a friendly rivalry with him but I think he took it too far the last time I showed him magic. I want a really good trick out of pure spite, so he will respect my hobby and talent. I just felt disrespected the last time I showed him magic.

Thanks everyone for the advice. But he is my friend so I see him regularly and walking away isn't an option. I made this thread because I WANT to stay and do magic, but I just need a new method and new tricks.
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 01:49, matt kemp wrote:
I want a really good trick out of pure spite, so he will respect my hobby and talent. I just felt disrespected the last time I showed him magic.

I just need a new method and new tricks.


He's not going to respect your hobby or your talent. Doing the trick you described dosen't take any talent in the first place. Especially the way you are presenting it. And it's certainly not magic. It's just a parlor trick done as a challenge.

There is absolutely nothing to respect. New tricks and methods would be completely wasted in your hands.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Hideo Kato
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If you challege your spectator, the spectator will challenge you.

If you show other trick to accept spectator's challenge, the spectator will challenge you more daringly.

Hideo Kato
matt kemp
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 09:40, Vandy Grift wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-15 01:49, matt kemp wrote:
I want a really good trick out of pure spite, so he will respect my hobby and talent. I just felt disrespected the last time I showed him magic.

I just need a new method and new tricks.


He's not going to respect your hobby or your talent. Doing the trick you described dosen't take any talent in the first place. Especially the way you are presenting it. And it's certainly not magic. It's just a parlor trick done as a challenge.

There is absolutely nothing to respect. New tricks and methods would be completely wasted in your hands.


I should have expanded on more what happened. So, I have been telling him about my cups and balls and my "one cup routine" (a chop cup routine), so he wanted to see those. During my cups and balls he would rudely tell me whenever he saw any sort of flash (which was only twice). But the thing that bugged me the most was that during my two-none-two sequence I said, "I will take the ball out of the middle cup and I can put it in either side cup." But he replied, "Put it back in the middle." And this kept going for just a little bit, but it really got on my nerves. I decided to show him my trick using a Si Stebbins setup because there would be NO WAY he could figure it out. So, it did work because he didn't figure it out. Then later he shuffled my cards and demanded that I do the trick again.

So Vandy, I know I left out some information but please don't jump to conclusions. I would like to remind you that I am an amateur and magic is just a hobby. I am just taking offense to my friend just as an artist would if someone insulted his paintings. Also, the only reason that I presented this card trick as a "trick" rather than just "entertainment" was out of spite. I never use magic to make myself out to be superior to others. This was just a special case to get back some respect.

I just started this post because as an amateur, the people I do magic for will have the guts to grab props and ask to shuffle. I have used lines to get people to stop grabbing or to let me finish my card trick before shuffling, but sometimes people egg on amateurs to repeat tricks and eventually we want to repeat tricks but at times (such as this trick with the Si Stebbins setup) it is impossible to do. I'm just looking for a way around it.
Billgussen
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It's more than likely that every person posting on this board knows where you're coming from. In fact, that's probably why they're taking the time to answer you. I had the same problems in school long, long ago, and my bet is that most people who took up magic before the age of about 23 has also had these problems (as have many who have taken up magic later). These guys in your school know that you don't have magic abilities, and because of that, you need even better "audience management" skills than a normal professional magician to be able to show your schoolmates magic.

Another trick, even if you were to go out and walk on water, would not make your friend respect your magic. He's too upset that you one-upped him to appreciate that you're doing everything you can to entertain him (you are, aren't you?). There's a certain suspension of disbelief that members of an audiences should have that your buddies between classes don't have. They see you as trying to show off.

The only way to fix the problem is to cut off the rivalry for the purpose of the magic show (be it one trick or more than one), and get your buddy into an audience state of mind. He has to be in a state where he isn't worried about how a normal human that he knows well did something impossible, but rather can appreciate the fact that his friend is taking the time to try to entertain him.

I know magic is just your hobby. But school is a special situation, and if you're going to get any pleasure out of your hobby, you're going to have to figure out a way to turn your rival into an audience.

Luck,
Bill
edh
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If he is your buddy and is trying to catch you I would reply in the case of the Si Stebbins trick in this way: Once is considered entertainment. Twice is considered lessons, and I charge for lessons. I read that somewhere. Smile

As for the cups and balls routine that you described why not had him the cups and balls and ask him to do it the way he wants to.

Seems that being nice and not antognistic is not what should be considered in a reply to him. You might say it in a joking way though. If he's your buddy chances are it will just roll off.

Maybe you should just stop doing magic for him or when he is in company of others.

You'll probably keep getting responses like this whenever you do magic for him.

He's not an audience he is a heckler!
Magic is a vanishing art.
benjie84
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Yea I had a friend that was a pain like that...i don't do magic for him anymore, and he wonders why!
erlandish
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Matt,

He's the textbook example of a bad audience. Stop showing him magic.

You're hoping to find something that will one-up him. I'm pretty sure that even if you found something that topped your last effect, he'd respond in a way that would make you think you need to one-up him again. And so on and so on...
The Jester Extraordinaire : bderland.com
Ye Olde Magick Blogge : erlandish.blogspot.com
Hideo Kato
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It is possible you made him a bad spectator.

Hideo Kato
matt kemp
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Well, I definitely will be reluctant to show him more tricks. That particular night there were only two other people hanging out with us so I felt like I had to show the group some more effects. I haven't been working with cards much because I have spent a lot of my summer working on my cups and balls and chop cup, so I kept my card work simple. Luckily he didn't hassle me with my other effects. Another problem with the Si Stebbins setup is that the tricks seem "too magical". That's why I might buy a marked deck just as a backup (yes, and also to one up my friend).

Honestly, I have gotten over my initial anger and I might not even try to outdo him on this particular trick. I can't even remember one time where he figured out a method, and he STILL hasn't figured out how I did the trick with the Si Stebbins setup. He is still claiming that I "forced" a card (even though he had free choice on where he cut the deck...)
Bill Douglas
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Richard Osterlind has a good technique that he uses while operating his BCS stack. He gets the spectator committed to the "test conditions" and then gets him or her to agree with him a few times during the routine..."you had a free choice to cut the cards wherever you wanted, right?" (just after the spectator did their actions). Then just before the big finale he briefly summarizes (time misdirection) and then asks,"so is that fair?". Check out the "Mind Mysteries" series, great material, but the lessons taught on spectator management and showmanship are worth more than the cost of the set. The Breakthrough Card System (BCS) is worth a serious look as well (looks completely random through out a spread and examination by spectators).

I also recommend that you follow with a trick (an "experiment") that makes your buddy the star. I suggest "Out of this World". There are a few ways to get set up from a fully shuffled deck. (PM me for some suggestions). When you reveal that he has successfully seperated red face from black in a "psychic" way, you can say..."how did you do that"?.

People like a gentleman, not a show off. Be a showman that magic just sort of happens to. Say stuff like "man, I hope this works", "If I followed the directions right we'll be surprised that...". Act a bit skeptical and leary when you reveal the surprise at the end, and then be relieved that it worked...when doing your tricks.

If you go pro then you can be a bit more cocky...but not much more. I saw Lance Burton this summer at the Monte Carlo and for a millionaire magician that nails it every time he is still humble and carries himself like he is still a bit surprised that everything turned out right and thankful that he is astonishing the crowd. I personally think that the "down-to-earth guys" and the ones that enjoy "the magic" are the best magicians.
T. Joseph O'Malley
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At this point, the best thing you can do is put a whoopie cushion on his chair.

Save your magic for someone else, and don't allow yourself to fall into this situation again.
tjo'
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