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John T Cox
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Hi

I have finally memorized the Aronson Stack well enough that I can get all the cards. Still working on the lateral associations - like the card after 6H is...

There is a lovely ace production in Aronson's new book Try the impossible that does not really need the memorization. Aces Awry. Great reactions when I do it.

I would like some suggestions for false shuffles please.
Also, can those of you who have used the stack give me a couple of suggested tricks that use the stack?

Thanks

John
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The Amazing Noobini
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 16:37, hypnodream wrote:
Hi

I have finally memorized the aronson Stack well enough that I can get all the cards. Still working on the lateral associations - like the card after 6H is...

There is a lovely ace production in Aronson's new book Try the impossible that does not really need the memorization. Aces Awry. Great reactions when I do it.

I would like some suggestions for false shuffles please.
Also, can those of you who have used the stack give me a couple of suggested tricks that use the stack?

Thanks

John


Never heard of lateral associations. Is this a term widely used by memdeck users? If so I have failed to practice it. Getting worried now.

My favourite "blind" shuffle by far is the Heinstein Shuffle. This is an in the hands riffle shuffle with a cascade finish which looks and sounds very fair indeed. It's origin is the Zarrow Shuffle, which is a wonderful false table shuffle (which I have never practiced since I don't have a proper table in my apartment). (I'm writing this assuming that you don't know these shuffles, which you may very well do).

Some people prefer the "Real Green Shuffle" by Lennart Green, but I thinks it sounds a bit fishy. Also it is very covered by the hands whereas the Heinstein at least seems perfectly open. The Real Green Shuffle is also a bit rougher on the cards, I think.

Lennart Green has some other wonderful blind shuffles, many of which are on the Green magic vol.1 DVD. One of my favourite DVDs, if not THE favourite. Lennart Green's "False Angle Riffle Shuffle" is also quite good. It is a seemingly fair riffle shuffle, but it requires a stripout cut move afterwards that many seem to dislike. This also makes the presence of a table very useful.

An alternative to this one is a shuffle by Guy Hollingworth which I don't know if has a name or not. There are a lot of old forum threads discussing it. It is quite similar in concept to Green's and even more so to Eric Anderson's "Shufflesque", but in my opinion slightly better looking. It also has an orientation which seems more logical for a right handed person than Shufflesque. However, Green's version seems safer to me in that it is less easy to lose control over one or two cards in the process.

Of overhand shuffles, I like G.W. Hunter's False Shuffle and also one by Juan Tamariz which I don't know where I have seen. The previously mentioned Lennart Green DVD has a great false Greek Shuffle which equals 1 cut.

The Charlier Shuffle aka Hay Mow Shuffle also equals 1 cut of the deck. The experts here need to add the best sources for these. My notes are partially assembled from forum threads and personal messages and I have failed to write down which books or DVDs where many sleights originate from.

A lot of people here are very enthusiastic about the "Underhand Shuffle" by Steve Beam. There is a demo of that on his web site, wherever that was again.

Ok... too many shuffles here... The short answer: The Heinstein Shuffle by Karl Hein. Available on DVD. The extremely talented Denis Behr has a demo of it on his website: http://www.denisbehr.de/

As for great Aronson stack tricks, I am searching myself. So far I really like "The Invisible Card" and "Two Beginnings" from his Sessions with Simon DVD set, vol.3. Also there are some nifty poker deal possibilities built into that stack. The best one IMO is on the same DVD. Expanding on that one into a full routine, read "A Stack to Remember" by Aronson and see the additions by Dennis Loomis on either his or Aronson's website.
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Dennis Loomis
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There are only a couple of my tricks with the Aronson Stack on Simon's web site. On my own site are some 22 complete articles I've written covering tricks and lots of other info. Some of it can be applied to any memdeck. Some is Aronson Stack Specific. It's all free.


You can do Aces Awry even if the deck is not memorized, but it you do have it memorized, it helps. For example, when spelling "Club" you may forget whether it should be Club or Clubs. If you know the stack, you know that the Ace of Clubs is 4 down from the Ace of Spades, so obviously you spell "Club."

Dennis Loomis
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churken
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Noobini, GREAT POST!

I also use the Heinstein Shuffle and think it is great. Over the last year it has become my main false shuffle. I highly recommend it.

There is also a nice false shuffle on the Richard Osterlind Mind Mysteries dvd's. I don't know the name of it but it is on the dvd with his Breakthrough System. I learned the shuffle years ago from the T.A. Waters book Mind, Myth & Magic. It is a lot easier than the Heinstein and in all the years I used it I was never called out on it.

After Magic Live this week there is a new shuffle in town, but it is not yet released, so go with the Heinstein or the one from the Osterlind dvd.

Dennis, I always enjoy your posts. I have recommended your site many times for the mem deck materials, and I do so again here with enthusiasim.

Paul
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Bill Malone has some very good Total Deck False Shuffles in his SAM THE BELLHOP routine from his Volume 1 of the ON THE LOOSE DVD Set.
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John T Cox
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Thanks guys,

I will look into these soon. I saw a DVD at my local magic shop that sounded like it was the Heinstein shuffle. Is that the best place to learn it?


Hi Noobini

You wrote - Never heard of lateral associations. Is this a term widely used by memdeck users? If so I have failed to practice it. Getting worried now.

I mean by lateral associations such things as the card after the 7 of hearts is the queen of hearts.
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Dennis Loomis
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The term Lateral associations is good. But I haven't found it common place among mem-deck practitioners.

Well, the best way to learn most sleight of hand is by personal instruction. But, you probably can't afford to hire Karl Hein to come to your home and teach you the Heinstein Shuffle. So the DVD is probably the next best way to learn. The instructions on the DVD are very good, in my opinion. But we all have different shaped hands, different ways in which our hands move, etc. So a part of practice is always DISCOVERY. Discover what works for you and what doesn't, down to the smallest detail. Then work to consistently do everything the "right" way.

On the DVD there are two different approaches to the shuffle. One which requires two repetitions to get the deck back in order, and one which does it with a single shuffle. I prefer the single shuffle, but worked out a variation of my own to achieve it. For those that do the Heinstein, feel free to PM me if you are interested in my handling. It's not "better" just better for me.

Dennis Loomis
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John T Cox
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Thanks Dennis and Michael

I have not been a card magic kinda guy so these are very helpful suggestions.

A great book to read on creativity and general thinking skills is Lateral Thinking by DeBono. My use of the term Lateral associations is based on some of his concepts.

John
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Nick Pudar
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John,
I have known about Edward deBono for many years and have been a great fan of his Lateral Thinking approaches. I have an amusing story to share: earlier this year, I was at a conference where both deBono and James Randi were speakers. At one of the evening cocktail receptions, deBono was sitting on a stool and talking with someone over a glass of wine. I happened to be walking by when I saw the following incident. First, deBono was wearing a very florescent orange tie, which had large stenciled lettering that read "Dept. of Corrections" printed sideways down the tie. James Randi walked up to him unanounced, and with his left hand grabbed the tie and bent over to study it. With his right hand, he appeared to pick at a loose thread. He held the thread firmly, and pulled it out about three feet while the tie fluttered madly from the separating thread. deBono had the expected look of shock. Of course, Randi was just fluttering his left second finger under the tie, and he was not really pulling any threads -- but it looked amazing. Then without a word, Randi pretended to roll up the thread, threw it on the floor, and walked away as though this is just what he did. It was fun to see deBono's reaction, and ultimate delight.
Nick
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John T Cox
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Thanks Nick

Great Story. I discovered DeBono, I think, about 20 years ago. I had always been a lateral thinker and just did not realize that most people do not exercise that part of their brain. My method for learning the Aronson stack is not the usual mnemonic or picture system. I see the relationships between the cards. First step is to think of the deck as a circle where 52 connects to 1. Then take the high hearts for instance. They are four cards apart starting at 22 A, Q, K, J, 10, 9, 8. The spades are six apart starting at 43 K, Q, J, A, 10. The nines are 6 apart starting at 42, H C D S. Then there are other connections. 24 is the 3D because 3 comes in between 2 and 4. 3 of the 6's are 6 cards apart starting at 39.

The picture method, which I tried to use years ago from Lorayne and some basketball guy to memorize the new testament, never did too well for me. Patterns work better. Stackview has been a great help.
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The Amazing Noobini
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Hypnodream, I really like that concept. I can see it now like a big wheel- or piechart-poster on a wall where different colors could be penciled in on the pie slices/spokes as one finds patterns. I already know the Aronson stack but such a chart could be a very useful tool indeed to see it "from above" in order to discover one's own ideas for new effects.

Also if you have that on your wall and someone walks in, he/she might think that you are some sort of twisted astrologist or borderline deranged occultist, which in itself could be fun.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
John T Cox
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If I were still single it might be a good way to meet chicks....

Then again, maybe not.
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The Amazing Noobini
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Haha, yes, but would they be the right kind of chicks? (i.e. sane ones)
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 16:37, hypnodream wrote:
I have finally memorized the Aronson Stack well enough that I can get all the cards. Still working on the lateral associations - like the card after 6H is...

. . . the three of clubs.

I recently wrote a little quiz program to help me refresh my memory on Simon Aronson's stack. I put in the obvious choice: position for a given card or card for a given position. However, last weekend I added a "neighbors" quiz: it gives me "Six of Hearts", I have to respond with "Ten of Hearts / Three of Clubs".

I can easily adapt it to any full-deck stack.
edh
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S2000, that's a great way to learn the neighbor cards.
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Scott Cram
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A good false shuffle for a memorized deck would be the FFS from Stack Attack. It appears very fair, isn't difficult, and quickly becomes very useful!

As I wrote in a recent blog entry on memorizing decks, you can use the Aronson Stack Quizzer to keep the cards and positions. As for the lateral associations, you can use any of numerous online flash card programs to quiz you on those.

I personally suggest using Memorize In A Flash, because you can set it up with playing card graphics on the flash card, making the test more realistic.
The Amazing Noobini
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Hmmm. It has never occurred to me to practice what the card before and after is. But don't you get that practice when simply setting up the deck?

All of a sudden I'm not sure. Perhaps I use individual stack numbers only.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Scott Cram
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Dennis Loomis' site, as he mentioned, features a great memorized deck area. Check out his article called Memorized Deck Mastery.
edh
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Noobini, I would like to be able to instantly know the neighbor cards of a flahed card. Right now I have to mentally convert the card to its stack position number then think of the position previous/after and it's associated card(s). I would rather just know it. If you know what I mean.

Incidently this converting doesn't take long. Just that I would like to instantly know the neighbors card(s).
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The Amazing Noobini
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I can certainly see your point. That could be a useful skill to have under fire. I will give this a try tonight when I'm back in my dungeon. Thanks.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
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