A young man on the Ellusionist forums is selling the cool science effect "supercooling" on his website:

http://www.learntoamaze.com/beer.html

As you can see in the demo he has no presentation and just seems to demonstrate this well known science effect to his spectators (who are drunk, hence the reactions)... I am wondering, do YOU think it is ethical to sell a well known science trick, with what seems to be NO presentation at all to the magic community?

In my opinion I do not think it is ethical unless there is a substantial amount of full working ROUTINES for REAL world performances... in this case their seems to be none...

that's my opinion, what is yours?

Cheers
Mason Roberts

Not unethical in the least. In fact, it's public domain, and thus very ethical. Saying that this is unethical is like saying pitching Svengali decks is unethical. I am not saying I would buy it, and you are correct, he has no presentation at all. I found the video painful to watch. No doubt his sales will be a pale shadow of what they could be for it. None of that makes it unethical.

If it is a well known scientific principle, then I am in the dark, because I have no idea how that was done! So, no it is not unethical.

Apparently it has appeared on TV in the States and also it is flooded all over youtube (search super cooling or corona freeze... I personally thought it was a tad unethical to be selling this... Well that's only my opinion...

Is this what folks are up about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercooling

Sure is!

I'm with Big Daddy on this. Cool looking effect, painful to watch (beat presentation!) but I have NO idea how they're doing it.

Hmmm...

Mark.

Transforming science, mathematics, logic and so forth into magic by adorning it with interesting characters is super cool.

Yes Tommy, and this particular stunt was well described in an America's Best Comics issue of Tomorrow Stories where the character of "Jack B. Quick" taught the reader how to scare people by taking the bottle out, gently opening it and then making a loud plea to the norse frost gods to show themselves... and that was about five years ago.

Nice that folks read ... eventually.

:)

http://www.leguy.de/comics/abc/charaktere/jackbquick.html

http://www.leguy.de/comics/abc/specials/giant.html

If I can find a link to that story online I will post it. It's a one pager and funny!

I vote for unethical.

One can type "freeze beer" into Google and immediately find methods for this "effect". To charge people money for something they could find themselves if they thought to look is to profit from the laziness or stupidity of others, and I think that is unethical. To think up a great presentation and sell it would not be unethical. But to simply sell a "secret" which is not indeed a secret is fraud.

The notion that it is ethical to sell anything that anyone is willing to buy is problematic.

Just my opinion, of course.

Jeff

Jeff, you make an interesting point, but I will disagree with you for now and here's why-

With the advent of the Internet, we can find almost any information we want if we are dilgient and can get the right key phrases etc into a search engine.

By doing this, I would in theroy be able to find all kinds of free information on sleight of hand magic, manipulations and the workings of stage illusions etc. So you would then say that someone like Jeff McBride is unethical because he assembeled this material into a compact all in one type source and chooses to market it. This leads me to believe that you would say anyone who sells magic is unethical. With enough digging around, I can find what ever I want for free.

Drew, I understand your point. But we're not talking about diligently looking for exposed secrets. We're talking about widely published school-level scientific knowledge. It's not just that the information is simply easy to find (I started a thread here once after finding HUNDREDS of magic books zipped up into one easy downloadable file), but that the information is something that--to use your phrase, in theory--SHOULD be available to all people seeking an education.

I'm never as clear as I'd like to be. But I'll try again: selling a supposed magical "secret"--which is fact a principal taught in every high school in the world--is a kind of fraud.

Jeff

I can see where you're coming from, but I'm still inclined to disagree.They didn't teach this in my high school, or if they did it must have been is a chemisty class (I took bilogoy and earth sci courses). When I saw the video effect, I was impressed by the effect, despite the seller's lack of performance ability. If I were still looking for closeup material, I would have plunked down the $10 buy the effect.

So by the same token, would ou find a book on chemical or magnetic magic to be an unethical item to sell seeing as a lot of what one might garner from those books could also be taught in a HS science class?

How are folks doing on finding that Jack B. Quick story page? I kinda expected a flood of PMs and email asking for a scan of the page.

For the less diligent and those who came late to this discussion...

The item is "Jack B. Quick's Amazing World of Science!" in America's Best Comics 64 page Giant, published Feb 2000, Page 54.

Sucker is born every minute. I bought several squared circles in my younger days, each advertised as a different trick, each marked under different type names, and I beat my head against a wall for an hour or so each time one arrived. I finally learned how to figure out from the description that the trick was just another squared circle. Everybody who sold me one was acting quite ethically. I was the one being the fool, and a fool and his money are soon parted. As far as finding out for yourself, you would be surprised how many people have no clue of how to do that, or they are just lazy and would rather pay than look. Several professions in this world make their entire living off of finding out information for others that they could find out for themselves and picking up a hefty fee for the service.

The principle should not be sold by itself, the only way to merit its marketing is if, as Jeff said, the principle was sold with a substantial amount of presentational and routining guides! This is a very border line topic, but the discussion is good! Keep it up!

Yes Photius, a sucker is born every minute. But the question is whether it is ethical to feed off the suckers.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, too. It's not snake oil, after all, but something which really works. And Drew, you're right: a book on how to use magnetism for magic would be no different than "75 tricks with a Stripper Deck". Still, this is only one single effect with no presentation. And a lot less complicated than, say, learning how to make fire with two blocks of wood.

Jeff

LoL, the video has such a noob look and feel and his buddies that are saying "no way" are almost as worse as Criss Angels spectators

SO, we are assuming again, are we? Well let's start with "what is widely known". I don't know how to freeze beer without some mechanical device. I don't know anyone that, to my knowledge, does know. All that really matters is the knowledge of the audience on the subject. Though I doubt I ever would, (not at all my style) I could entertain an audience using this. I would do so, firm in the belief that most of them do not know the workings of the effect. Perhaps this mechanism isn't nearly as widely understood as you think it is. Perhaps you are falling into the magicians trap, "I know it, it seems obvious to me, so everyone must." Whatever the reason you feel the way you do about this effect, perhaps you should rethink it. Regardless, to decide someone else shouldn't perform it, because you think it is obvious. Each entertainer must be the judge of his/her audience and their tastes and desires.

I also think a lot of people here don't understand what "ethical" means. Caviat Emptor.

Since folks have demonstrated that even when given a source for data they will continue to ask to be spoon fed...

How is it unethical to permit folks to pay for the privilege of being spoon fed?