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Dannydoyle
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I wish I could have expressed it so well.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Noel M
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Just before I climb back under my rock I'd like to mention that in my last post I assumed that the owner wanted to keep who he had that's why the request to pass his name along would make sense.

I see that my business experience doesn't match that of restaurant magicians so I promise to not open my mouth about things of which I know little.
Dannydoyle
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Not a bad policy in general LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MagicSanta
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It isn't that it doesn't 'match', it is just different.
Christopher Lyle
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Boy...did this thing snowball into the land of "off the point."

Let us get back on track...

I had a conversation with the owner of the restaurant today to explain the events that took place. Understand, that I "DO" have a great relationship with him and since I've been performing in his restaurant now for just over 3 years, we've become good friends. So I feel I can speak candidly to him about most anything.

We both agree that the ball was dropped on the RESTAURANTS side of the equation. Every single group that is booked at the restaurant is supposed to be told at the time of booking that they provide entertainment by Magician Christopher Lyle. That obviously wasn't the case this time as this one slipped thru the cracks. Turned out, the party was booked several months ago by someone who got fired for not doing her job up to par...big shocker there!!! The owner thinks that I handled the situation like a pro and he thanked me for that. If he's happy...then I guess I should be too...but I'm just a bit uneasy about the whole thing still.

To explain...when I found out that the group had hired entertainment, I gave the hostess of the group my card like I give everyone my card who comes into the restaurant. I didn't leave her a stack or try to pass them out. I just simply gave her my card which I noticed she put into her purse. I was not trying to steal this guys thunder. I was simply trying to let her know that I was the house Magician at the restaurant and she could go onto my website (which is on my card) to see when I was performing at the restaurant so the next time they booked a group, they wouldn't have to hire anyone if they were having their event at the restaurant.

When this guy showed up, he never knew that I gave my card to this women.
It was I who began the thread just a few days ago of NOT DOING THAT!!!!

So I hope that clears it up. As I said when I started the OTHER THREAD, I would never do anything to take someone's gig from them. That's in poor taste and I hate people who do that thinking that it's "competing" for business.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this...having read everyone's posts, I do feel much better about the situation. Thanks for the pick me up! = )
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Dannydoyle
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Wheather he knew or not how could you know that? It is possible, heck probable while you were at a table working she told him. Heck if I was the hostess I would have.

Even with you explaining it, the move is out of line and I find it hard to believe you can't see that.

How would you feel if a long time client of yours had a party at a place and the guy came and did that? Be a bit different I would imagine.

See you WERE trying to take a client from him. You just admitted as much to us in your explination.

" I was simply trying to let her know that I was the house Magician at the restaurant and she could go onto my website (which is on my card) to see when I was performing at the restaurant so the next time they booked a group, they wouldn't have to hire anyone if they were having their event at the restaurant."

You were telling her NOT TO HIRE ANOTHER MAGICIAN. Wow how more clear does this need to be? You were doing exactly what you said NOT to do on the other thread.

Sorry but that is how it works.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magic_Steve
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After hearing his POV, I'm going to say givng her the card was not out of hand. In that situation, I would have done the same thing. Just kind of letting them know that entertainment is provided by the restaurant, thus saving them a few bucks.

I have to dissagree with Danny on this one. Smile

Best.
Steve
Bad to the Balloon
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Hmm the guy was an @ss either way.

Maybe he knew maybe he didn't .... Were you a little out of line. Mmmm yeah. If she asked for the card no.

Have I been a jerk to another performer from their perspective .... could be?

Scenario : Met the manager of an Outback Steakhouse at a school event. She saw all the wonderful balloons I do and asked if I could come to her restaurant to work. Went down cut the deal and as I am leaving she says:
"well I am going to ask the magician that comes in to move from Friday nites to Saturday nites."

Whoa! you have a magician already?

"Yeah he comes in on Fridays and well he drinks quite a bit and we really don't pay him .... I would much rather have you"

Please call him and let me know what happens.

Well that week came and went and I was asked to come in. Seems the magician flew into a rage with the manager, cursing and yelling. To say the least the big guy in the kitchen escorted him out.

Now did I create the situation? No not really. Did it happen. Yep Why?

Well for one the guy had no signage of his presents.

He had not cemented his relations with his manager.

He did not play well with other. Servers and customer alike tell me horror stories of this scary guy.
Mark Byrne
AKA Mark the Balloon Guy
As seen on the TODAY SHOW
www.balloonguy.net
Creator of Bad to the Balloon DVD series
Go to my store: http://tinyurl.com/Bad2theBalloon
MagicSanta
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Lyle, I love ya like a brother, but she knew you were the house magician. Everyone at the table knew, in fact, every individual in that restaurant knew you were the house magician....wanna know how I know this? The following from you sir:

quote:
Let me set the scene for you. In any restaurant that I play, it's very obvious when you first walk in that I'm performing there. I have several 24 x 36 posters somewhere at the front entrance showcasing my act and the times that I play. It's IMPOSSIBLE not to see that upon entering. There are also table signs/tents that advertise my presence at the restaurant.


See that? Everyone knows!!!
I'm glad the guy didn't know she got your card or he'd really go out of his mind. Hang in there and don't worry about it. But they knew.....
Christopher Lyle
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Danny,

I will play devils advocate for a moment. If I gave her my business card with the thought that I was TRYING to steal this guys gig or any future business...then I would agree with your point of view.

However...that was not my intent. My card was given out very non-chalontly and innocently. I see your point...however, I just don't agree...so we'll agree to disagree on this one.

The bottom line is, the guy was a complete #^$@*! and no matter WHAT took place, what he did was completely uncalled for...that we do agree on.
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Review King
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What are the odds, that in a restaurant that has a magician, a party books a table and they also hire a magician. I mean....most people, unless it's a kids birthday, wouldn't think to hire a magician.

It's so utterly fantastic, it's like it was made up.

And the manager, not knowing the private party had hired a magician, asked him to leave? That's so strange. I could see if they brought in their own bartender....but they were paying guests and hired a magician ( still, I find that so strange ).

And...people left the private party to be entertained by another magician. This is so amazing.

And this fellow was throwing a ball at the ceiling to expose card to ceiling, as if just saying it's wax wouldn't do that?

I guess if the Restaurant Magician had a contract and in that it stated guests may not hire a magician to entertain them, then...well...can you imagine trying to get a restaurant gig and presenting a contract with that clause?

Maybe it's just me. But....what an amazing story......
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Christopher Lyle
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Christopher...

WHY ON EARTH would I make up such an outrageous tale? For my own entertainment? There's no way I'm that creative. Sometimes truth is crazier than fiction!!!
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Dannydoyle
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Lyle, there is no agree to disagree. You solicited his client. Plain and simple.

I don't give a rats hind parts, what your ascribed "intent" was in doing so it was out of line.

Why not take something away from the experience and actually learn something instead of trying to justify bad behavior.

As Santa said, they knew full well you were there already. If she wanted your card she most certainly would have asked for it.

If your intent was NOT to take the client then what was it? What is giving a card to someone supposed to accomplish anyhow? OF COURSE you wanted her. She had a history of hiring magicians, she got a bad one, and you wanted her as a client plain and simple.

"Agree to disagree"? Sorry but you need to at least admit what your intent was as it was painfully obvious.

The guy was outrageous, lucky for you. What if they guy had been a true professional and did an "adequate" job for his client and you had done the same thing?

You still havn't answered how YOU would feel if someone did that to you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Christopher Lyle
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Danny,

Ok...I'll bite.

If I walked into a restaurant to perform for a group and saw that the place already had a Magician, then I would question why I was called to perform in the first place. I would feel very awkward being there as I would feel like I'm invading anothers territority.

That being said, if I found out that the magician had provided his card to them, I wouldn't have any problem with that BECUASE I would have done the same thing in their shoes (as I did). I would think "it's their restaurant, it's their gig, they were well within their right to do so."

I would be mad however if I walked into a restaurant to perform (no house Magician performing) and a guest of the restaurant (who just happened to be a magician) saw me performing for the group and then after my show went to my client to sell themself, then yes...I would be pretty hacked off!

Apples to oranges my friend. I have no problem learning from my mistakes...but in this case, I feel as I did nothing to provoke this person, I acted as pro as I could by telling the client it was no big deal and walked off to entertain the rest of the house, ignored (for as long as I could) the actions of this person even though I knew he was trashing me and my act as well as trying to expose an effect to the audience that I did.

Since this guy was into the AJ style of insult magic, I keep trying to tell myself that maybe it was all just part of his act and that he was harmless. But I don't think so....????
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Dannydoyle
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Lyle maybe your confused. It is not YOUR restaurant, you are an employee.

I see your point, but the "client" was who was solicited, that is what makes it wrong in spades.

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 12:36am
Maybe we have a different definition of "stealing a client" and that is the problem.

When you hand someone a card and tell them to go to your web page and use you next time to "save them some money", well it is pretty clear.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
lunatik
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It's dog eat dog in the business world. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you're a restaurant performer and have great routines, and are learning new things, AND have built a relationship not only with the regular customrs, but upper management, you have no worries about someone else sending in promotional material or handing out a business card. NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!!! I can't believe some of you who think that once you get a gig that it's binding for life unless you decide to relinquish the role that no one can even think of offering their services as well. LOL, very laughable. Is there a way to solicit business away from someone else, but in a professional acceptable manner? Yes. If you disagree with me, ask any CEO of any major company. Thanks for playing Danny.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Christopher Lyle
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Well, I'm glad that you see my point (as I can see yours). I guess that's better than nothing.
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Dannydoyle
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Lunatik we are speaking only of acting like a professional and nothing more.

Glad to see you completely miss the point.

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 12:43am
All that being said people came into Schuliens each and every night to drop off cards, promo packs and so forth.

Not a problem as I see it as we used SO many guys it did make sense to do so.

Just another situation in which it is NOWHERE near wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
lunatik
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I just expounded, that's all. Some of your points are valid, while others I disagree with. At anyrate, good topic.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Christopher Lyle
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Danny,

So if I'm reading you correctly, you belive that I acted pro EXCEPT you think I broke my own rule and tried to steal this guys future business?

I guess I'll have to accept that since it's obvious that my attempts to convince you otherwise have failed.
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
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