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toomuchmagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 00:40, kammagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-20 23:14, toomuchmagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-20 22:55, MagicSanta wrote:
For those in the Conneticut area I found a list of places for you to go look for potential work! New London...subs....good stuff and you don't need to do the groundwork yourself!


LISTEN

the guy did not go and call up a list of the others clients. He left his business card with someone.

You are a child.


toomuchmagic,

I suppose your best friend would be ok with you giving your phone number to his girlfriend?


That doesn't even make sense.

But to answer your question, he probably would be ok with it. I am as loyal and honest as they come.
patrick flanagan
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Lyle,
While your intent was innocent, you really shouldn't have given out your card to this group. Once you found out it was a private party, you did not belong. Imagine the person's (who you gave the card to) perspective. You are telling them that even though they have already hired a magician for their event...next time they should hire you instead of him. Otherwise, I applaud your control and professionalism in handling the rest of the situation. I believe I wouldn't have had that much control.

Some of my experiences like this: I walked into one of the bars I work at on my scheduled night, only to find another magician working. I approached the owner to find out that they were having some kind of liquor promotion and the promo company has their own magician that goes around to the bars. He didn't know about that part of the deal. I approached the magician, who was already working and explained the situation. He felt really bad about it, but was unaware that I was working there. He offered to stop working that night. I told him that it was not a big deal, as the promo people were there, also. I told him to go on and work the promo, and that I'd take the night off. The place wasn't big enough for the both of us...wow, that sounds like some old western movie line...lol. After he got done working, we hung out for a while and had a fun time.

Toomuchmagic and lunatik,
My disagreement with you is in your equating regular business practices with what we do. Purchasing managers are bombarded on a daily basis with incentives to drop their suppliers for a new company's offering. Lower prices, better shipping terms, the list goes on and on. Looking from a pure business viewpoint, there is nothing wrong with trying to get someone to drop their magician and hire you. I suppose I'd held out hope that, as a small community of performing artists, we would support each other rather than try to eliminate each other. The public's current image of business (executives and practices) is not held in very high regard. The public's trust in the business world is at an all time low....Enron and the other companies that ripped off it's employees pension and retirement plans, to companies closing their doors and moving operations overseas for cheap labor, gas companies using terrorist scare tactics to justify doubling gas prices and then posting record profits, etc, etc, etc. I just had hoped we could manage some dignity in our small part of the business sector. Wishful and probably naive thinking I understand, but a guy can dream can't he???
Patrick Flanagan
lunatik
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 21:01, derrick wrote:
Lunatik,

I hope you are treated to a good dose of "life" someday. I'm sure you will deserve it.

Derrick


wake up and smell the coffee. it's like restaurant magicians live in a fairytale where no one would dare to create competition and take some business. I think ya'll are in doubt of your business and performance skills,or know that your'e lacking in both, that's why you whine about the thought of another magician trumping you. if you guys knew that those skills would make you or break you, I think that more time would be invested in creating the best magician that you could ever be. but instead, you like your lollypop gig down at the local hangout and are content where you are at. one day, you will wake up to no job and wonder why. I hope you remember this thread and come re-visit again. and Kam, your analogy is flawed, I won't even respond to that one Smile
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
patrick flanagan
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Lunatik,
Just curious as to your experience in restaurant working? I'm also curious as to where you are located. I'm wondering what kind of competition you have there. And before you get all defensive, I'm inquiring for information purposes only. Nah, I'm actually wondering if you know what you are talking about, because being the best magician in the world has little or nothing to do with staying power in a restaurant entertaining situation. Scroll up and re-read Danny Doyle's post about what it takes to maintain and prosper as an entertainer in a restaurant.

As I've said before, it is makes perfect business sense to try to do everything legal to eliminate your competition. I, personally, am not wired that way.
Patrick
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 01:06, MagicSanta wrote:
(name of those things kids wear on their arms that blow up when they swim)

Floaties.
Scott F. Guinn
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"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
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I hate to admit it, but I'm with Danny and Santa on this one.

Listen gang, the analogies of doctors and fast food chains don't apply here IMO. Again, though I am the house magician, if a PRIVATE PARTY is booked and hires an entertainer of any kind for that party, that's HIS turf, not mine. Unless I own all or part of the establishment, it is not MY restaurant.

Yes, BK and Mickey D's advertise on the same TV stations. But you don't see golden arches plastered all over the dining room of Carl's Junior. Yes, if you meet a doctor at church or while playing golf, he may well give you his card. But I'll bet dollars to donuts he won't come into another doctor's office while you're waiting for that doctor to come in and hand you a card.

Now, I understand that this guy was a creep. I understand the original poster didn't know another guy was coming in. However, here's what I would have done: As soon as I was told that the party had booked another magician, I would have said, "Oh, OK, great! I hope you enjoy the show. Have a wonderful evening."

I would not have given them my card. To me that is every bit as out of line as if the other guy had started giving out his card to guests at tables that weren't part of the private party--which I'll wager would have ticked off Christopher (as well it should).

I think that if a guy starts bad-mouthing you and trying to knock cards off the ceiling, then you should do what Christopher did--take it to the boss.

So, overall, I think you handled things pretty well, Christopher. But I don't think you should have given them your card. As I said, I'll wager you would have been pretty cheesed if he'd have given his card to your tables. Further, you stated you didn't know this party had a magician coming. Well, maybe the guy coming for the party had no idea that the restaurant had a house magician until he got there. Stuff happens.

Years down the road, whether you feel you had "the right" to give them your card won't matter. What WILL matter for the rest of your life is your good name and reputation. Giving up your rights sometimes can pay big dividends years or even decades down the road--and I don't mean just in money.

Great Scott off his soapbox and out!
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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MagicSanta
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See, they beat me down and finally Scott, with his smooth new Bonnie and Clyde lookin' photo, agrees with me! Dang....
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 01:13, toomuchmagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-21 00:40, kammagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-20 23:14, toomuchmagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-20 22:55, MagicSanta wrote:
For those in the Conneticut area I found a list of places for you to go look for potential work! New London...subs....good stuff and you don't need to do the groundwork yourself!


LISTEN

the guy did not go and call up a list of the others clients. He left his business card with someone.

You are a child.


toomuchmagic,

I suppose your best friend would be ok with you giving your phone number to his girlfriend?


That doesn't even make sense.

But to answer your question, he probably would be ok with it. I am as loyal and honest as they come.


Its quite a simple analogy and after I posted it I knew you probably wouldn't understand the point. Giving a girl a phone number insinuates you are hitting on her. So I will rephrase the question. Would your best friend be ok with you hitting on his girlfriend. How about this. Would you be ok with your friend hitting on your girlfriend? Me and my friends don't do that because we respect each other. Its no different then moving in on a magician friends territory. Its disrespectful! You simply don't do it. If you are disrespectfull in this way it makes me wonder how respectful you are of your customers, your coworkers, your employers, your perspective clients.

It never fails the guys that make the biggest stink on the forums are the ones with no avatar, no profile, no website. I'll say it again it equals no credibility.
MagicSanta
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Yeah...you stinkies. Wait, I don't have an avatar, profile, or...wait, I do have a website but it isn't there to entertain magicians. As for avatar I've no idea how to put one up and if I did I don't have anthing cool to put there. I went to that profile section and all I can see is it asks for something called an ICQ, I don't know what that is, and an IM thingy and I don't IM, don't know how having either of those would help ease your mind Kam. Then again, what if I did put up a photo of someone, filled out some nonsense in a profile, and any idiot can make a website...dang some guys are gullable if that is all they need to 'believe'. Good thing I'm really not concerned with what you think eh matey?
JamesTong
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I agree with Jonathan fully. It is basically ethical respect, and from which powerful alliances form.
DylanTolly
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If I was in the situation I don't believe I would have handed the lady my business card. To me it is very obvious that someone could get upset about it. I do believe it is an unethical move, but then again people have different values and views on ethics.

-Dylan
lunatik
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Yes, everyone owes you guys the world. once you get a gig, the only way to lose it is if you voluntarily quit. lol, get over yourselves guys. ok, I need to use the restroom, I almost P*ss** my pants reading some of this.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 06:34, lunatik wrote:
Yes, everyone owes you guys the world. once you get a gig, the only way to lose it is if you voluntarily quit. lol, get over yourselves guys. ok, I need to use the restroom, I almost P*ss** my pants reading some of this.


So how much experience do you have in restuarants? Please fill us in on what magic work you do and how old are you?
lunatik
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How much experience do you have in the REAL business world? I'm a close up magician, 18yrs experience, 34 yrs old. wait, I better get an avatar setup and a website going LOL. I know 5 tricks total. I do sponge balls, scotch & soda, ACR, Invisible Deck, and cups and balls. Once I got my job, I knew I was set for life. I know if another magician tries to steal my job, that I'll just call him unethical and he'll go running LOL. yeah, I have life whipped I'd say....
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 07:01, lunatik wrote:
How much experience do you have in the REAL business world? I'm a close up magician, 18yrs experience, 34 yrs old. wait, I better get an avatar setup and a website going LOL. all of the e-thugs gonna jump me in the alley Smile bbl


Do you have any proof of these claims? Your a bussiness man and no website? that's strange. You are 34 years old and you wet your pants. hmmm?

Posted: Aug 21, 2007 7:23am
Quote:


On 2007-08-21 07:01, lunatik wrote:
How much experience do you have in the REAL business world? I'm a close up magician, 18yrs experience, 34 yrs old. wait, I better get an avatar setup and a website going LOL. I know 5 tricks total. I do sponge balls, scotch & soda, ACR, Invisible Deck, and cups and balls. Once I got my job, I knew I was set for life. I know if another magician tries to steal my job, that I'll just call him unethical and he'll go running LOL. yeah, I have life whipped I'd say....



If you want us to take you seriously this is your moment to prove yourself.

How much experience do you have doing magic in restaurants?
Do you make your living solely with magic?
Are you serious about only knowing those 5 tricks?
Your 18 years experience are composed of what exactly?
toomuchmagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 03:54, kammagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-21 01:13, toomuchmagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-21 00:40, kammagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-20 23:14, toomuchmagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-20 22:55, MagicSanta wrote:
For those in the Conneticut area I found a list of places for you to go look for potential work! New London...subs....good stuff and you don't need to do the groundwork yourself!


LISTEN

the guy did not go and call up a list of the others clients. He left his business card with someone.

You are a child.


toomuchmagic,

I suppose your best friend would be ok with you giving your phone number to his girlfriend?


That doesn't even make sense.

But to answer your question, he probably would be ok with it. I am as loyal and honest as they come.


Its quite a simple analogy and after I posted it I knew you probably wouldn't understand the point. Giving a girl a phone number insinuates you are hitting on her. So I will rephrase the question. Would your best friend be ok with you hitting on his girlfriend. How about this. Would you be ok with your friend hitting on your girlfriend? Me and my friends don't do that because we respect each other. Its no different then moving in on a magician friends territory. Its disrespectful! You simply don't do it. If you are disrespectfull in this way it makes me wonder how respectful you are of your customers, your coworkers, your employers, your perspective clients.

It never fails the guys that make the biggest stink on the forums are the ones with no avatar, no profile, no website. I'll say it again it equals no credibility.


Your analogy in no way relates to business sir. Therefore it was flawed, if analogous at all. But to try and relate it back to the original situation, the guy was just giving the lady his number, NOT hitting on her.

No avatar, no profile, no website. No credibility.
It seems, sir, that you are referring to magicsanta...not myself.
MagicSanta
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Okay, where is this secret profile that everyone is talking about because it can't be the one I see when I clicky on it. The only question I understand is 'interest', here, I'll go put something there if it works.

Posted: Aug 21, 2007 1:12pm
I forgot my password so I'll answer the important questions you all need desperately to know here:

ICQ Number: Huh?
AIM: Not bad with a rifle
Yahoo Messenger: huh?
MSN Messenger: Huh?
Web Site Address: When I moved I stopped using it, might get another if need be
From: Well, I was born in Washington state
Occupation: retired for now
Interests: trout fishing

There, now if I had a photo I could use as an avatat and knew how to put it up I would. I'm sure the above eases your troubled souls.
kammagic
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Toomuchmagic and lunatik,

I have no problem with Magic Santa on this thread the problem is with you two. You two seem to think it is alright to move in on someones client. This is not professional behavior at all. It makes me question your magical background and professional performing experience. So please fill us in on who you are and what you do.

1. How old are you?
2. How long have you performed magic professionally?
3. What form af magic do you perform professionally?
4. Have you worked in restuarants on a regular basis? How many years?
5. Do you make your living only doing magic?
6. Are there any videos or pictures on the internet of you working?

Please answer the questions above and tell us anything you feel would be pertinent to us knowing who you are. Because right now you really have no identity and therefore no credibility. Please fill us in.

PS: toomuchmagic, When I click on your avatar the website link does not work. It is missing a letter. I added the letter and found your site. Well its an entertainment site that you are a part of. Not really your personal site. There is not really any info about you there other then dates you will perform.
Hart Keene
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You guys are being ridiculous. Kam is just asking for a little proof that some of you have any experience to speak from, and rightly so.

I have not been on here as much lately because I get sick of the "armchair magicians". Kam is a worker, some of you should give him a little respect.

Lunatik, why are being such a smart ass? Kam is simply asking what kind of experience you have in our field. Where have you worked? When? Do you currently work? I am willing to bet that you have never even dealt with the type of situation at hand.

You guys are talking smack about Kam asking for a website. Well, can you think of better "proof" that someone is a worker? I can't think of any modern business that doesn't have a page. Can you? Where is your page Mr. Business Savvy Lunatik? Surely you have one? If you don't want to post it here then PM me and Kam. Sorry to call you out but you are being a jerk.

Santa, you must be retired because you have tallied a lot of posts in a short amount of time...
-Hart

Check out my website:
Magician Portland Oregon
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 13:12, MagicSanta wrote:
I forgot my password so I'll answer the important questions you all need desperately to know here . . . .

You're really something!

(I mean that in a good way. Seriously, kudos: this one got me laughing!)
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