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Ace illusions
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Dream 2 looks great!! It looks very visual.

I tried to create a CTB that has a similar effect, but I did not complete the illusion due to several reasons. One of the main reasons is the set up of the effect.

I hope the set up of Dream 2 allows the performer to perform the effect without any worries.

I think you can let the audience keep the bottle in Dream 2. But you cannot perform it with a borrowed bottle.
The Mac
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They can have it as a souvenier

in DREAM1

1. BORROWED BOTTLE, BORROWED COIN
2. BORROWED BOTTLE, BORROWED SIGNED COIN

They an have the bottle with all variations of DREAM2.They can take home the bottle with a big coin in it.

In thinking about magic in general and looking at tricks where if something is magically altered its usually rectified to conform with the natural state of things eg. sawing a lady in half..we restore her.. if you make something vanish you should bring it back.Espeicaly with borrowed items. Maybe taking the coin out is a good thing


MAC

PS.Ace, you are right. there is set up and the handling will take time to learn to do but the visuallness is so worth it. Read the book on Berglas about his lenghty set-ups. By the way, in dream 2 the bottle can appear factory sealed.

Every trick has pro's and cons.
Y2John
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Hmm seems to be an interesting release

So Dream II is possible with a full bottle, sorry if that's a silly question after all the info you've just given but the part about a seemingly factoy sealed bottle being possible led me to believe this
Ace illusions
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Quote:
PS.Ace, you are right. there is set up and the handling will take time to learn to do but the visuallness is so worth it. Read the book on Berglas about his lenghty set-ups. By the way, in dream 2 the bottle can appear factory sealed.

Every trick has pro's and cons.


As I have mentioned I tried to create an effect like that, but I could not complete the illusion. I did not include that version in my DVD as the set up I used was too "fragile" for me to perform the effect with confidence.

From your video I can see that your set up is much stronger. I believe you manage to solve the problem that I could not solve.
magic777
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Ya pretty sure there will be water in it if its factory sealed.
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Can the bottle be handed out before the effect is started like Untouchable? Also can you perform it with out so much cover on the front of the bottle? Penatration looks awesome though!!!

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Jeremy Hanrahan
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The Mac
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On campus now! just performed it for a class of 25 media technology students (know it alls types)! They freaked out!competely this is too much fun. just walk in with a bottle cap it, ask for a coin..melt it thru the bottle then hand it out!

one commment was "dude! it looked like special effects but like..in front of me"

Go take hold of a bottle with water in it you will hold it bascially in the same way. If you want basically no cover go with CAP MELT THRU penetration where you hold the bottle by 2 fingers.

In a routine of the 2 tricks the see and inspect dream1 firstso don't run when you not being chased.

So far has fried laymen and leaves them speechless then its good enough for me to perform without caring too much usual magicians over proving and nagging about tiny things that the laymen never seem to notice.

Can you hand out the bottle with a big coin inside it for them to keep in impervious with the same kind of visual penetration?

regards
Mac
Y2John
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It is possible with Impervious though isn't taught and would make the routine unnecessarily less practical, but the visual penetration would be unhampered.

Can you do yours without the label?

Is your way of getting an oversized coin in the bottle new, and if so how long to set-up?

Can the spec handle the bottle before the effect?

Can the bottle be freely looked from all directions without any risks?

Can it be performed surrounded?

Are you left clean?

I like your visual penetration as ive said, and it sounds like your including a lot.
I look forward to seeing the ideas you've come up with.

Impervious's effects do not come across as over proving etc, not that you were saying that but after the overproving comment I thought I'd just say
Ace illusions
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On 2007-08-28 07:35, Y2John wrote:
It is possible with Impervious though isn't taught and would make the routine unnecessarily less practical, but the visual penetration would be unhampered.

Can you do yours without the label?

Is your way of getting an oversized coin in the bottle new, and if so how long to set-up?

Can the spec handle the bottle before the effect?

Can the bottle be freely looked from all directions without any risks?

Can it be performed surrounded?

Are you left clean?

I like your visual penetration as ive said, and it sounds like your including a lot.
I look forward to seeing the ideas you've come up with.

Impervious's effects do not come across as over proving etc, not that you were saying that but after the overproving comment I thought I'd just say


The main strengths of LUCID DREAM 2 is that it is very visual, and the bottle with the big coin inside can be given out as s sovernir.

If I'm not wrong the answer to your last 4 questions will be "no". But I don't think it is a big deal. From a layman's point of view, it is already a miracle. I don't see the need for the audience to inspect the bottle before the effect. I find that it is good ennough that you can let the audience keep the bottle after the effect.

Yes, for Impervious the bottle can be display in a very clean and open way. From what I know it is simple to perform too. But I don't think it will look as visual as LUCID DREAM 2. Plus the coin that was used is not bigger than the neck of the bottle.

As you can see that are strengths and weaknesses in both effects. It is up to the magicians to decide which one they prefer.
Y2John
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Yeah there will always be differing strengths and weaknesses to every effect as depending on what your achieving some sacrifices usually must be made.

I didn't mean let them inspect the bottle before, I meant it as in they could hold on to it or it could be left around everyone with no worries and then with that bottle go into the effect anytime.
magic777
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Why is everyone comparing this to Impervious? Lol, its a different coin in bottle, lets just wait till this dude releases it to judge the effect, I will be buying it for sure and will write up a review!
Christopher Williams
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On 2007-08-28 10:15, Ace illusions wrote:

The main strengths of LUCID DREAM 2 is that it is very visual, and the bottle with the big coin inside can be given out as s sovernir.

Yes, for Impervious the bottle can be display in a very clean and open way. From what I know it is simple to perform too. But I don't think it will look as visual as LUCID DREAM 2. Plus the coin that was used is not bigger than the neck of the bottle.



I really don't see the big deal that the coin is bigger. If it is, you MUST end completely clean with not even the sleightest hint there was a ditch. If the visual penetration doesn't sell them, you are doing it wrong, I don't care for the 'Bigger than the mouth' part of a coin in bottle, proves nothing to me.

As for visualness...have you seen the penetration in Ocular perception? I believe that has never been done before like that and though I will be biased, I think it is incredibly visual. Just watching it yourself you fool yourself.
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Ace illusions
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On 2007-08-28 12:40, Christopher Williams wrote:
Quote:
I really don't see the big deal that the coin is bigger. If it is, you MUST end completely clean with not even the sleightest hint there was a ditch. If the visual penetration doesn't sell them, you are doing it wrong, I don't care for the 'Bigger than the mouth' part of a coin in bottle, proves nothing to me.

As for visualness...have you seen the penetration in Ocular perception? I believe that has never been done before like that and though I will be biased, I think it is incredibly visual. Just watching it yourself you fool yourself.





Well to me it is very important that the coin is bigger than the mouth of the bottle. It just makes the whole effect looks more impossible. Just look at the good old classic f**ding coin in bottle, most magicians will emphasises to the audience that the coin is too big to fit through the mouth of the bottle.

I don't think it proves nothing. It proves that you did not slip the coin into the bottle through the mouth of the bottle.

For LUCID DREAM 2 the visualness is there.

Quote:
If it is, you MUST end completely clean with not even the sleightest hint there was a ditch.



The best way to is you push the big coin through the bottle and you immediately show your hand empty. I'm not sure if LUCID DREAM 2 is able to to that, as not many coin through bottles allow you to do that. For my effect Sealed & Stuck you can do that.
But even if you cannot do that,as magicians you should be able to do the ditch without anyone detecting it.

From what I know you Ocular perception allows you to show your hand empty right after you penetrate the coin. However the audience don't actually see the coin and bottle as separate objects prior to the penetration. Hence, I don't think it will look as visual as LUCID DREAM 2.
Christopher Williams
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If they think it is even going anywhere near the lid, again you are doing it wrong. In my handling, there is no question it is a completely empty bottle and the coin goes no where near the lid.

~I don't think Lucid Dream 2 can do that either if it is what I think it is, and would you rather show a coin and then be dirty? Or be dirty and then be clean? Think about it, I know what I rather. When that coin goes in the bottle, the best thing you can do is immediately show empty hands, which is what I do in Ocular perception, it is all fair and open
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Y2John
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In Impervious the coin and bottle are shown as seperate objects before the penetration, if not then it wouldn't be a borrowed coin.

I would rather have a CIB that allows for a fair display, is basically angle proof, is visual and you end clean, than one where the bottle can't really be seen fairly and ends dirty but has a bigger coin inside.

If a coin is slammed into a bottle then the coin being larger than the mouth is a great plus, but if the coin is seen to melt into the bottle then there is no need as they see it go in with the coin in full view.
Ace illusions
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On 2007-08-28 13:29, Christopher Williams wrote:
If they think it is even going anywhere near the lid, again you are doing it wrong. In my handling, there is no question it is a completely empty bottle and the coin goes no where near the lid.

~I don't think Lucid Dream 2 can do that either if it is what I think it is, and would you rather show a coin and then be dirty? Or be dirty and then be clean? Think about it, I know what I rather. When that coin goes in the bottle, the best thing you can do is immediately show empty hands, which is what I do in Ocular perception, it is all fair and open


I will definitely want the audience to see the coin and bottle as separate objects prior to the penetration. To me that is the most basic requirement of a good CTB effect. The audience MUST be convinced that the coin and bottle are separate before the penetration.

The thing I like about CTB effects is that even if you end dirty, you can do the clean up easily. After you penetrated the coin through the bottle, you hand the bottle to the audience and you have the perfect opportunity to do your clean up. All the attention is on the bottle, and you can do your clean up without anyone noticing.

"Show the coin before the penetration, cannot show your hand empty right after the penetration"
VS
"Don't shoe the coin before the penetration, but can show your hand empty right after the penetration"

When I was creating my CTB I also faced the same problem. Which of the 2 option should I choose?

In the end I manage to find a way to "show the coin before the penetration and show the hand empty right after the penetration."
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Showing empty hands right away is way more important. They always look right away to see if there is an extra coin.
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Y2John
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Ha ha once again I'll say this...

The coin IS seen before the penetration and infact basically never leaves there sight. The way it's routined allows for what ive just said, and also you can have the coin in full view the entire effect with a little bit of thought, remember we can't rely on the creators for everything, they supplied us with the means to accomplish the effect the way they do it and it's down to us to come up with our own ways.
Ace illusions
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On 2007-08-28 13:43, Y2John wrote:
In Impervious the coin and bottle are shown as seperate objects before the penetration, if not then it wouldn't be a borrowed coin.


No, I mean you cannot show the coin and bottle as seperate objects right before the penetration. I think it sort of weakens the effect.

Quote:
I would rather have a CIB that allows for a fair display, is basically angle proof, is visual and you end clean, than one where the bottle can't really be seen fairly and ends dirty but has a bigger coin inside.


Yes you can end clean, but the penetration is not as visual. If I'm not wrong LUCID DREAM2 is quite angle proof.



Quote:
If a coin is slammed into a bottle then the coin being larger than the mouth is a great plus, but if the coin is seen to melt into the bottle then there is no need as they see it go in with the coin in full view.


Again, the melting effect would not look like a real miracle if you cannot show the coin and bottle as seperate objects right before the penetration.

In LUCID DREAM 2 you don't "slam" the coin through the bottle. You see the coin "melts" through the bottle.
Y2John
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I understand what you saying but the routining means that for Impervious it really doesn't matter.

It is possible though to show a coin the entire time and melt it in, but it's just not taught.

Im still looking forward to seeing the workings behind Lucid Dream (the entire set).
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