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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
I have done pretty much every common rope routine published (Sans, Tabary, Daryl, Sanders, Colombini, hayden, Gazzo and so on) in paid gigs at least hundret times, but somehow I felt on all of em that they werent just deceptive or whne they were, they used up rope each time. In most cases however they all had some phase or something where the gimmicked smaller rope was exposed and in my eyes smart spectators must realise that its the secret of the trick. that's why I dropped em all out of my show, one after another.
After some time I started to consider again putting a rope piece into my show cos rope packs small, plays huge and is common object. However I didn't want to use rope in each performance, but have one rope I could use over and over again. That lead me into gimmicks. Magnets was the easiest choise due to ease of use. Putting any kind of rope gimmick in the middle of the rope and doing cut and restored rope type routine was a dead giveaway in my opinion. It is just so clean that there is nothing else that spectators can think but it is a gimicked rope. Tugging on the ends isn't satisfying enough if you just cleanly cut rope, show it on 2 pieces and put em back together. So my answer was to put the gimmick on the end to the small piece. That would also allow me to do most of the common rope moves if I wanted to. So I went thru my huge libary, watched hours and hours of dvds and vhs tapes on rope magic, made notes and such and finally made my own routine. In my eyes I thought my routine was better than anything I had seen before. It was nothing really new but it just combined lot of common stuff with gimicked rope into around 7minute magical fireworks. The problems started to arise when I performed it at gigs first few times. I kept hearing from people that they really liked the routine but that the routine is just too impossible for the rope to be normal one. They even said that there must be magnets or such in the rope. I added thing from Pavel where he allows to spectators to pull on the ends of the rope and still I kept hearing that the rope cant be normal. This really started to bother me. I could so some amazing clean shows with the rope and the routine could be extra clean but I cant. I dropped some of the clean shows out and now I wont hear that as much, but still occassionally someone says the rope must be gimmicked. In a way its strange cos its just the orginal too perfect theory. The end result was just too perfect and therefore it became unperfect cos spectators don't have anything else to think but the right solution. However after making my routine not so clean, there really is just 2 cut and restored phases from patrick page that even use the magnets and those who know em (Everlasting rope) know that they are used rather creative way. Other than that whole routine could be done with any rope but this way I am also allmost where I orginally started. I have rope routine that isn't clean enough for my taste. Anyway, the point of all this nonsense I wrote is to get some ideas on how to possibly change the routine, possible presentation or something that spectators cant just say that it is gimmicked rope? Or how other people handle routines with gimmicked ropes? don't you get these comments or don't you just care about em cos people allways make rational explanations on our routines? Currenly I am considering doing cards across type routine with the rope a la Bob Sheets before my rope routine if that would help making people feel its a normal rope, but I havent tryed it yet. And ofcourse, as last resort, I just redevelop the whole thing or drop it again from my current repertoire. J-M |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
JM
Just why do you feel the need to explain or justify magic? When people say to me "how did you do that" I tell them the same stock answers "I can tell you, but then I would have to kill you" "you must be a magicians union member first" "it's magic" the bottom line is if they are curious you have done a good job of entertaining, if they don't care you have failed to capture their imagination. I think you worry too much. The people that you mentioned are the absolute best in rope magic, I suggest you take a couple steps back, and look at the big picture. HAVE FUN Al
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
I'm not as experienced as you, but a couple of thoughts on things looking "too good to be true". Tarbel V5 p294 & V8 p176 has a novel way to let the spectator cut the rope, show them as separate pieces, and see that the ends are not gimmicked in any way, then the magi immediately/fairly restores them. The use of the spectator helps sell the fairness of the method. (which of course it is not)
I think it was Pete Biro, on the Café, that carried this a step further, with a most unusual approach. After doing a C&R that showed the two pieces, he restored it right in front of them, and then thru the rope out to the audience to sell the fairness. Those ropes were gimmicked, but he rationalized that just 1 out of ~500 would ever realize that. The others would be convinced that they were ungimmicked.
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I think that "fiber optics" is the perfect example of a trick that is easy to figure out, but from the audience's point of view the d*** rope is just jumping out of your hands like it had a mind of it's own. It is not astounding magic that sells this trick it is the speed and rythem of the moves that creates the optical illusion. Many magicians have second thoughts about doing "fiber Optics", and are quite surprised when the audience goes crazy for it, and it also helps to giggle like Richard Sanders too.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-31 14:37, Al Angello wrote: The main reason for this is what I consider to be magic. I use pretty much same defination on magic as Michael Close does: "Magic is something that seems impossible and rational explanation isn't satisfying enough" In otherwords I feel that if I am a magician, I really want to fool my audiences as well. As Rene Lavant once wrote: "Our task is amazement, not amusement. Allways amazement first!" If I wanted just to entertain or be funny I would be comedian or something else. In magic I can combine everything else and tie it all up with a weil of mystery and amazement. Also I am also firm believer on Jamy Ian Swiss thought that if you can nail the smartest guy in the audience, it will be very efficent way of doing magic cos if you can fool the smartest one, the rest will just come along on a free ride. Hope this explains a little my thinking. J-M |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
With an attitude like that you will never have any fun, kinda like Mr. Swiss, who is angry all the time.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
jolyonjenkins Inner circle United Kingdom 1181 Posts |
I'm also less experienced than you but I also prefer magic to be as strong - i.e. as inexplicable - as possible. I also think (and this is a heresy) that the best magic is repeatable.
The Tarbell Hindu rope mystery leaves you clean but it's a lot of work to make up each time. Have you tried the Neff trick? Unfortunately it uses up rope each time but I don't think an audience would figure it out.
Jolyon Jenkins
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Robert
I bought the Neff trick from Abbott, but I was not impressed. I suppose it plays better than it reads.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
The Neff trick is a killer, but you have to work out a reason/presentation. I have a couple of crazy variations, one where the spectator shoots the rope into two pieces and I catch the bullet in my teeth.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
To the original poster. Rope is cheap. Raise you prices a couple of bucks to cover using new rope every show. But Abbott's 3-Vol. Encyclopedia of Rope Tricks.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
The Neff trick is definitely not repeatable, and magicians 7/32 in. rope is $30 for a 300 ft. spool.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-01 12:32, Pete Biro wrote: My prices are more than enough for me to buy rope for the rest of my life if I wished to do so. There are however other things worth considering when using up rope in each performance. -It takes a lot of space. -It takes time to prepare it. -It doesn't reset anymore. -And also, the piece is getting shorter and shorter by each phase and it is noticeable. There is ofcourse many streghts to routine done this way and I have atleast 2 friends that have one closet full of ropes cut to right lenght. That way they just have to take rope from there and toss it onto their briefcase and they are ready to go, but again, that's not just for me. Or atleast, not at the moment even though Salvanos work on ropes in tempting me to try. J-M |
jolyonjenkins Inner circle United Kingdom 1181 Posts |
Al - did you ever perform the Neff?
I've only read about in the Encyclopedia and here. Pete - care to tell us your other presentation?
Jolyon Jenkins
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Robert
After reading the instructions I decided it was not my kind of trick, but I would love to see Pete do it. I like a rope trick that relies on the skill of the magician like the Dennis Loomis "rope routine plus" rather than just a cool presentation. Doug Henning got a great rope trick reputation based on his repeated performances of "Knot unexpected" on TV, so I bought it from Abbotts, and was disapointed in just how little skill it took to do, so I have it in my junk drawer right next to the Neff trick that I also bought from Abbott, and never tried. I do a lot more rope tricks than most magicians but I'm still very fussy.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
I saw Bill Neff perform his rope trick. Fooled most of the magicians at Abbott's that year... including me. It looked like real magic.
Dennis Loomis P.S. While my knot routine does not waste rope, I have another routine which does. I go through a lot of rope in the course of a year... and consider it worth it.
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I use 8 ft per show, and I do over 200 shows a year, but I'm able to save the leftover rope to do either walk around magic, or my new favorite rope trick "the vishnu rope mystery"
Dennis Everyone who has seen the Mac King show on the Vegas strip raves about the rope trick that he does that he never talks about. Did you ever see him perform, and is it a kinda Neff type trick. He has two tricks for sale on his web site, but not this one which his bread, and butter move.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
Al,
I've seen Mac perform, but not the rope effect you mention. One of the things that makes the Neff Miracle Rope effect to amazing is that after the visible restoration the rope is tossed into the audience for examination. It's just an unprepared piece of rope. Dennis Loomis P.S. Neff did it as his opening effect and the method makes that almost necessary. I recall that someone... was it Pete?... worked out a slight variation so that you could pick it up and do it in the middle of your act.
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Yes, I worked out a simple handling so you can do it any time. I use a Willman Pull (giant reel). Neff could do it in mid-show...he had a gag with a long red lady's stocking up his sleeve to get the "necessary".
There was a rope book put out by Magic Inc. with a different kind of pull using rubber cement that enabled you to do it mid-show as well. I also came up with using the little explosive crackers sewn into the rope so you could BREAK the rope in two instead of cutting it. When set up it is impossible to cut the rope yourself. Anyway some years later I read someone else came up with the same idea using the exploding devices independently. The Neff Miracle rope was literally a "forgotten" trick, and rumaging around in the back room at an Abbott Get Together, I found it and went out on the demo stage with Duke and Karrell and DID IT... soon after they were sold out and had to make another batch overnight to sell the next day. It fooled everybody badly.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Andre Hagen Inner circle 1432 Posts |
I used Neff's Miracle Rope for years as an opener. I had a spectator tie his ring to the end of the rope before he cut it so that when restored, I could give him the rope with his ring still on it.
I started a thread on this earlier this year: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......;forum=9 Andy
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I am still looking forward to someone shedding a little light on the Mac King secret rope trick that only he does. I've never seen his show, but I do know that when magicians ask him about this trick he only laughs.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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