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sirbrad
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How does one go about buying the tricks/magic kits in order to sell them after the show? Wouldn't you need a business license so that you could buy wholesale? Otherwise it would be tough to make money back, especially in the case of Svengali decks priced already at $5-8 a piece plus shipping. Or where could I buy some magic kits/decks at a wholesale price, or a really good price for this? I have never pitched products after my shows before, but always entertained the idea.

Not to just earn more income, but to help promote magic in my local area, as I am the ONLY magician within at least 60 miles, and have been for almost 30 years now. I would also like to be able to buy some magic kits for an introductory course I am currently forming, which will be taught to kids and adults. Anyone ever put anything together like this? I had an idea of using the sets, along with binders of notes that I will create for guidelines in the class, each one approximately 1-1 1/2 hours each.

The course would be one day a week for a month or two, and I would include the costs of the materials in the program, and try to keep it low enough that people would want to take part. I would also give out business cards, and offer further mentoring and an "expanded study" course in which I might help those learn from a book, say Mark Wilson's Complete Course; should they wish to continue. So the important thing is the prices I would have to pay for these materials, as I would want to keep the cost as low as possible, yet still profit somewhat. This would also give me more members for the IBM/SAM club I am still forming.

Not sure yet if Jim Snack tells exactly how to do this or not, as I did not get to the concessions part yet in the book. So just curious what everyone else does here who buys at the retail price only. Thanks, Brad
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Al Angello
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Don't go there my friend or the tax collector will follow you like a hound dog, and ask you about every gig you perform at. The quarterly paper work will drive you crazy. I had a PA. tax number, and I literally had to jumped through hoops, and beg them to take it back. I prefer to get paid in cash, and be as far off the tax man's radar scope as possible.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Donald Dunphy
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Magic classes and after-show souvenirs (BOR = Back of Room sales) are different things.

Are you asking about both?

- Donald

P.S. Years ago, when Dave Dee had various free reports promoting his products, he talked about doing BOR at shows, as a way of increasing your income level. Since then, I've seen it talked about by hundreds of people online, and in other products. I'm not saying it wasn't discussed in print before then. I'm saying there is a good chance he "popularized" it.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
TheDean
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There are TONS of threads and discussion all over this place that go into details on this very subject... a quick SEARCH will reveal them to you and you are off n' running! - Whoo Hoo!

Try:
- BOR
- Back of Room Sales
- Merchandising
…as few key-words to get ya’ started!

There are more too... have a look and see for yourself!

Thinking of YOU and Your Success!

I am at your service and in HIS Service,
Deano in Reno (for today...)
<><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success!
"Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…"

(*Marketing Doctor) Smile
mota
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For Svengali decks you shouldn't pay more than around a buck apiece for them. To see how to really pitch them and get the source get Don Driver's Svengali pitch video.
sirbrad
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Quote:
On 2007-09-03 14:52, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Magic classes and after-show souvenirs (BOR = Back of Room sales) are different things.

Are you asking about both?

- Donald

P.S. Years ago, when Dave Dee had various free reports promoting his products, he talked about doing BOR at shows, as a way of increasing your income level. Since then, I've seen it talked about by hundreds of people online, and in other products. I'm not saying it wasn't discussed in print before then. I'm saying there is a good chance he "popularized" it.


Yes both. I was wondering if everyone bought the items at wholesale, so they would not have to be astronomically priced at shows. The performers who actually have tables out with all these beginner items, do they buy the stuff wholesale with a business license? I seen performers take in hundreds in CASH at these tables, so it peaked my interest. I was also wondering about discount buying for the items required for the magic classes as well, namely kits and stationary overhead.

I will use the searches, thanks.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
sirbrad
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I just remembered that I actually do receive wholesale catalogs that have these types of magic sets in them, and all types of oters items sold by the dozen. But I do not have any at this time. I forget the company name though, so hopefully another one comes soon.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
TheDean
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D. Robbins
FUN Inc.
Empire Magic
Loftus Novelty
Kipp Brothers
Oriental Trading Co
...and sooooo many others.

Heck, even the Dollar Stores have magic stuff most of the time.
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success!
"Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…"

(*Marketing Doctor) Smile
Jim Snack
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In New York State, you need a State Sales Tax certificate that you get from the State Department of Taxation & Finance. That certificate is what most wholesalers ask for, since you are buying for resale, they don't charge you tax, but they need a copy of your tax number on file. You then have to collect tax on sales in New York State and pay the state, usually quarterly. That's exactly what I do. Yes, it's a pain, and yes, there are penalties if you fail to file, but that's the way it works. If you want to dance to the music, you must pay the piper (and the tax man).

Jim
Jim Snack

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sirbrad
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I was in the process of getting a business license/Tax ID number to start my own online shop, but never got around to finishing it. My ultimate goal has always been a B&M shop but at this time I cannot afford the overhead. I can't stand the IRS for a number of reasons, but have no problem paying the taxes. Although I question how many of the magicians I seen pocketing cash actually report it. Some of the wholesale companies will not sell to you unless you have some type of shop. Some even said that an online store on eBay was not good enough.

Anyone know which of the wholesalers above are a little more lenient? I think Fun Inc was pretty lenient back when I talked to them. I am not sure if I will go through with an online shop, but would definitely like to have access to wholesale rates for kits to use for BOR and classes. I seen some of the various decks/sets at the dollar stores, but there is not enough of them for what I want. Most of the time there is less than 10, and would require always waiting for them to refill.

Thanks Jim for the advice. So how should I proceed from here? Is the State Sales Tax Certificate all I would have to get? Do I simply keep track of all my income from BOR, and report it when I do my taxes?
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Donald Dunphy
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Quote:
On 2007-09-03 17:52, sirbrad wrote:
I seen some of the various decks/sets at the dollar stores, but there is not enough of them for what I want. Most of the time there is less than 10, and would require always waiting for them to refill.


When I wanted some items that I saw at my local dollar store, I introduced myself to the manager, and told him what I was looking for. He brought in the extra items I wanted (as a part of his regular order from his supplier), and we both were happy. He even gave me a bulk purchase discount.

You weren't clear if you had tried that approach.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Al Angello
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Brad
Forget about the IRS, you will be dealing with Berkheimer the Pa. tax collector, they are EXTREMELY effecent, and will hound you to death.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Jim Snack
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I'm not familiar with the state tax laws in PA (although it sounds like Al has had some experience in that area!). Check with your state and/or county tax department.

But don't forget about the IRS. You still need to claim the income form your profits!

Jim
Jim Snack

"Helping Magicians Succeed with Downloadable Resources"
www.success-in-magic.com
sirbrad
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Quote:
On 2007-09-03 18:20, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-09-03 17:52, sirbrad wrote:
I seen some of the various decks/sets at the dollar stores, but there is not enough of them for what I want. Most of the time there is less than 10, and would require always waiting for them to refill.


When I wanted some items that I saw at my local dollar store, I introduced myself to the manager, and told him what I was looking for. He brought in the extra items I wanted (as a part of his regular order from his supplier), and we both were happy. He even gave me a bulk purchase discount.

You weren't clear if you had tried that approach.

- Donald


I saw 12 little sets with 12 tricks each, but would prefer the bigger and better quality start up sets for my classes. I assume that you take the ones in Dollar General out of the boxes that have an engraved price of $1.50 stamped in big yellow on the front? I was hoping that was a sticker, but no luck, as the box is very nice. I suppose one could create their own boxes, or with bags and a stapler.

I know I could make my own kits, but just trying to see what is out there for now. Sounds to me like trying to do it the honest way is very painstaking and time consuming, may as well just make my own and sell for cash!
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
sirbrad
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Quote:
On 2007-09-03 18:44, Al Angello wrote:
Brad
Forget about the IRS, you will be dealing with Berkheimer the Pa. tax collector, they are EXTREMELY effecent, and will hound you to death.


I hate that name, and they already do hound me occasionally. I also see the "honest" way is a lot less lucrative!
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Donald Dunphy
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Hi Sirbrad -

Because I'm in Canada, I wasn't referring to a specific store you might be familiar with, or a specific brand of tricks.

In fact, I don't just get some of my beginner magic tricks from my (favorite) dollar store, but also some other items I use for running my business.

I was speaking from experience about the idea of getting what I want by building a relationship with the manager there.

If he can get what I want, great. If he can't, I look elsewhere.

- Donald

P.S. There are some "courses" available that teach you how to put together goodie bags, magic kits, magic classes, DVDs, activity books, etc. You don't necessarily have to buy those courses to be able to do it yourself, but they might be helpful. They give you suggestions of props and also suppliers. Some also include ideas about writing instuction books to compliment the props, etc.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
sirbrad
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I would be interested in seeing these courses. Although I know I could make my own as I already said, I would not mind buying some stuff too that would help save a little time. I have a friend from the Café here who does make goodie bags all the time, and I am awaiting a response from him. He does mostly kid's shows. I will most likely teach introductory courses for both kids and adults, but probably use a better quality set for adults. If I cannot get access to wholesale prices, I will just include it in my fee; which might not be bad idea anyway.

I am still going to research awhile though first, and wait and see what turns up. Thanks for all the advice everyone thus far.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Dannydoyle
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Accountants are far better people to consult than those on a magic board.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
sethb
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Sirbrad, I sell Svengali decks and other pocket magic at street festivals, municipal fairs, craft shows, flea markets and so on. I have no B&M location, but as long as I was able to meet my wholesalers' minimum purchase requirements and had a current State resale license from the Division of Taxation, they were more than happy to do business with me.

On the other hand, if you are trying to obtain these goods on credit, most wholesalers will want all sorts of background info, references, etc. Perhaps that was the boondoggle you were referring to? But if you are paying by credit card, it shouldn't be an issue.

I have dealt with both D. Robbins and FUN, Inc., and found both companies very helpful, courteous and efficient, making deliveries within 2-3 days of my order.

I also second the idea of checking in with an accountant. He helped prepare my Schedule C form for the business as part of my personal income tax return, and taught me a lot about how to set up and account for things. This gave me a clearer picture of my inventory and which items were the biggest sellers and the most profitable. And his fee was deductible, too. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
sirbrad
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Thanks Seth. Yeah credit was no problem at all, in fact I had the cash. But some places like Murphy's seemed very picky, who had too much demand and minimum ordering for what I wanted to accomplish. Now if and when I have a B&M shop, that would not be a problem, provided I win the lottery and have adequate financial back up to just have fun with it all, as opposed to relying on it as a livelihood.

Oh yeah I checked Dollar Tree as opposed to Dollar General, as I remembered they have similar kits/cards. WOW what a difference! That place is a goldmine, and a magician's BOR supermarket! Almost as good as the crafts section in Walmart! Smile They had about 50 small sets which were actually better quality than I thought, and lots of Svengali/stripper/blank/marked decks, and a few others. The same boxes minus the store logo! Perfect to create my own little start up kits.

I will probably add more extra stuff though to make them more enticing yet. As far as ethics go, I consider anything on the mainstream market like this fair game. None of these tricks is going to do any kind of damage whatsoever. Heck even the Masked Magician did no real damage, at least not in my case. I actually booked more gigs during that time, probably because people wanted to see if they could dispel my illusions. I was not doing the big illusions he did though, just small stage and close-up.

I wish I had that kind of money! But yeah I was pleasantly surprised at how many kits they had. I would only need 10-20 per month to start, so that is perfect and there would still be some there for others to buy, although I doubt they sell much because the marketing is not good around here. No one knows they even exist!
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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