John Cornelius used to show folks the coin that falls up and his coin through table handling in his lectures.

He did not make a claim upon the Muscle Pass but just shared a couple of applications.

But then the punks started taking it upon themselves to "teach" what is not theirs and without so much as getting permission from the guy who's ideas they are teaching.

And then some sorry newbies were so needy as to buy those works rather than just asking around and getting meet John Cornelius.

As to anyone who sells such works... not so amused either.

Starr, folks... it's not so much whether or not OTHERS are hypocrites but whether or not YOU want to be a hypocrite or even support those who keep asking other to be hypocrites. Let's at least label the tentposts clearly before we try to pull any splinters.

"Label the tentposts"?

Who ARE you, Wil Rogers?

I was under the impression that was the proper translation of the term used in the quote about stuff in people's eyes.

All,

Before we get too way off topic let's just entertain the thought that there are those in magic for the money and they will try/do anything to get their end game. Then there are those who are in it to entertain/perform/love the art. These are the purist and they are the ones that want to keep the secrets secret so that we can all entertain the layman. You must find out which one you are. Neither are right nor wrong. The purist want to protect what is already out there. The money guys bring magic to the public and force magic to evolve (finding better ways of mystifying the audience). Both have been good for magic. Today we can upload anything on the web and most of the time it is done by someone trying to promote themselves. However, I believe as Tim does that we are seeing more and more ripp offs because we are seeing more and more magic films. It isn't what we do that sets us apart, it is how we do it. DC's laser illusion was a modern day miracle; all the other ripp off versions are just tricks. It is in the presentation where we make the money or share our art. When it comes to ethics in magic, you must ask yourself what are you willing to do to get to your end game. If taking someone elses patter/routine/prop is the way you want to go then do so but do so knowing that you won't get very far. Invent/create/be original and you will soar. Ethics is a personal thing that each person must decide for themselves. Where it is wrong to steal it may be a way of survival for others. Who are we to judge? Listen to your gut feeling and you will make the right choice.

BYUDAD

I wish all who perform the best in performing.

And all who copy without permission the best of what comes from being known as a copyist.

If it ain't yours... hands off.

JT, I totally agree with what you say. However it is a bit disturbing to me that "name" magicians that blatantly ripoff others still get a pass. They still sell magic effects and magicians here still, not only buy them but get great reviews on the effects by other "name" magicians. This despite the fact that they have already shown that they have ripped off another person.

If ethics means so little to the giants in our small magic community then why should they matter to us commoners?

Another thing that bothers me is that if you call them out on what they have done you will get hammered by the folks that idolize these people. If more of us would call a spade a spade then just maybe these type of ripoffs will cease.

IMHO anyone that is associated with companies that rip people off are just as guilty as the ripoff artists.

Someone has said, and I paraphrase here: "show me who your friends are and I will tell you what type of person you are".

I understand where you are coming from but it makes me ill that these guys get a pass and the magic community remains mum.

Just my thoughts, and I'm prepared to take a hammering.

Ed, ethics mean a great deal to the "name" magicians... and what is sad here is that it's other people being ethical to those "name" magicians which permits this behavior to continue.

Folks, you get to choose who you admire, who you respect and with whom you will do business. You get to choose whose secrets you keep and who you will trust.

Now if you wish to do business with a thief, you are likely to be found in possesion of stolen property. And if you are willing to keep the secrets of someone who has taken from others, well guess what you are complicit and may even be party to a consipiracy (thank you RICO act).

Your actions (or lack therof) make the world what it is.

If you want respct, be respectable.

Don't let your best trick be fooling yourself into complacency.