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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » I am so confussed » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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m15d1r3ct10n
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I went to an Encounter at my church. First off let me say that it was great and refreshing for me to get back with God. I was re-baptized, since I did it when I was 8. I thought it was nessasary. Too anyone out there who gets and invited or has the oppotunity to go to an encounter GO!!! it will be wonderful. But, When I was there and talking with my group I asked them about magic. I made sure they specifically knew that it was not black magic or sorcery, but illusionary magic like we do. I was told that it was wrong for me to do it cuz I was opening doors in myself for the enemy to try to come in by. I was also told it can give a false impression of myself which also opens doors into my soul. I don;t want to stop doing magic it is a great hobby and great fun for me. My son and I have a very significant bond thru magic. It gives us something to do together that we can keep secret from other people. It's kind of like a special thing that we share together and perform together at times but we keep the secret of the tricks between us. He is my step-son. And I feel magic was one of the things that helped create a strong bond between us with. Where we follow the magicians code toghether. What are your opinions on this. Please help me with the dilemma in my mind I am facing
paulmagic
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Because many Christians just don't understand "magic" (as in illusion)they immediately label it as wrong. You will find lots of threads on this forum discussing this topic. Try not to be too bothered by well meaning but "ignorant" people.
I am a full time pastor and have been doing magic fgor 5 years now and still people misunderstand or get nervous about the magic I do. *sigh*
Many Blessings!!

Paul
Terry Holley
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What is "Encounter"? An organization? A ministry in your church? Is there a web site?

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Tony Thomas
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I'm a pastor as well, and I agree totally with Paul. I know these folks are well intending, but they don't get it. One of the best posts about this topic is the sticky at the top of this section, Should Christians do Magic or Conjering. I think the proper response is to thank them for their concern, and let them know that you will consider their advice. Hopefully they will be sensitive enough to not bring it up much.
From the Encouraging Magic of...
Tony Thomas
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Tony Brent
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I agree with Tony. I've the post he mentioned and also printed it. It's worth studying. Remember that "magic/illusion" is uncommon for most people and that even though you are trying to explain what you are doing they may not be really listening. The first time I performed at my own church a few folks told me later that the magic was too good and that they questioned whether it was "Biblical"!

Hang in there!
Tony Brent
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Count Elmsley
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I am a christian like you, and have been for nearly 50 years. A member of a large local church where I am often asked to take the Kid's story on a Sunday Morning and do some Gospel Magic. The response from the Kids is amazing, they will listen to the 'Gospel' patter because they are expecting some magic to follow. The response from the 200 or so adults is amazement at the magic and an appreciation of the gospel content.
I suggest that you tell your Christian critics that Paul said "I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some" (1 Cor 9:22 NIV) and that you intend to use your hobby to win young people through Gospel Magic.
Remember too that they criticised Jesus because he mixed with prostitutes, tax collectors, Gentiles and all sorts of sinners, so you are in good company.
Alan
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m15d1r3ct10n
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An encounter is a weekend retreat at church where you go through a bunch of messages from various pastors and basically you get to have a personal encounter with God. It is a time where you can meet God and be delievered from all things that have been preventing you from being the best christian you can be. It's a way to get your life back in check, and just get to have have some personal time with God. Maybe find out your calling in how God wants you to be a servant. It was wonderful I would have paid $500 to go to it. I plan on attending next year, since it was just so refreshing, and getting in touch with the word was great too
Rickfcm
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If they are unbending in their opinion, you have two options. Yield to the pastor's authority in the church or LEAVE.
Rick
m15d1r3ct10n
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I won't leave the church. I like it alot. And, I feel I have decided that what they don;t know what hurt. It's not like I have to tell them everything I do right?
m15d1r3ct10n
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I also think that I can really touch some people through magic.just as some of you have so.... you tell me
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-09-11 16:33, m15d1r3ct10n wrote:
I won't leave the church. I like it alot. And, I feel I have decided that what they don;t know what hurt. It's not like I have to tell them everything I do right?


Doesn't this then rather prove their point that magic is "opening doors in myself for the enemy to try to come in"? "What they don't know won't hurt" is considered by many to be lying and in the end that type of behaviour will blow up quite badly. They may not like that you perform conjuring tricks (don't refer to it as magic around them) but I wouldn't try to hide the fact that you do. Of course there's no reason to perform or even mention it in their presence but if asked you need to be perfectly honest with them in the fact that you are still practicing prestidigitation with your step-son.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Rickfcm
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Bravo Payne
m15d1r3ct10n
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Quote:
On 2007-09-11 17:27, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-09-11 16:33, m15d1r3ct10n wrote:
I won't leave the church. I like it alot. And, I feel I have decided that what they don;t know what hurt. It's not like I have to tell them everything I do right?


Doesn't this then rather prove their point that magic is "opening doors in myself for the enemy to try to come in"? "What they don't know won't hurt" is considered by many to be lying and in the end that type of behaviour will blow up quite badly. They may not like that you perform conjuring tricks (don't refer to it as magic around them) but I wouldn't try to hide the fact that you do. Of course there's no reason to perform or even mention it in their presence but if asked you need to be perfectly honest with them in the fact that you are still practicing prestidigitation with your step-son.


that is actually what I meant. When I am around them I will not discuss it. Or open a conversation about it. But if I am asked I will be honest. And again I will try to defend my point of view on that. But I am really seriouse about gospel magic for the neighborhood kids. I can't forsee my church allowing me to do it for the kids at the church. but, I see no reason why I can;t do gospel magic for the kids that live around me. I guess I will have my own little childrens church thingie going on. I guess that will be good considering that I would say about 90% of the families that live in our area don't go to church. That way at least their children will get to hear the good news, since their parents won;t take them. what do you think? maybe that is my purpose of my hobby and where I have been placed to live?
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-09-11 18:40, m15d1r3ct10n wrote:

I see no reason why I can;t do gospel magic for the kids that live around me. I guess I will have my own little childrens church thingie going on. I guess that will be good considering that I would say about 90% of the families that live in our area don't go to church. That way at least their children will get to hear the good news, since their parents won;t take them. what do you think? maybe that is my purpose of my hobby and where I have been placed to live?



I'd be careful about preaching to other peoples children outside of a church. Perhaps the reason they don't take their children to church is because they don't wish their children to be exposed to such things.
I'm sure you wouldn't want me telling your Step-Son about the benefits of my belief system why do you think I'd want you telling my children about yours?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
m15d1r3ct10n
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Hmmm good point. I did'nt think of it that way. I am just really trying to figure out a way to use my hobby for a good cause. Not for money, nor fame, but to share and have fun.
Bball5630
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Don't be too quick. Payne's response would really just eliminate all types of evangelism. In his theory the Great Commission would be mute. I won't get into the debate here, but don't stop evangelism of any sort. With your magic or without it.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-09-11 18:53, m15d1r3ct10n wrote:
Hmmm good point. I did'nt think of it that way. I am just really trying to figure out a way to use my hobby for a good cause. Not for money, nor fame, but to share and have fun.


"Preach the gospel at all times. Sometimes use words"

A trick that simply puts a smile on a childs face can go a lot further than a trick with a Bible verse attached to it.

Plus you'll get a lot less angry parents pounding on your door demanding to know why your trying to convert their kids.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
m15d1r3ct10n
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I don't look at it as trying to "convert" but inform. I think converting is when you pound someone over and over with something. If I inform, I am letting them know who jesus is and what he did. Maybe that will spark some interest, and have them want to know more. I know the bible says something on the bases of going out to all nations and preaching the gospel. So nations could be anywhere be it another country andother city or just in your own backyard. But I do feel bad that there are many children out there who will not get the chance because their parents are non-belivers. That is why at times I feel like it is my job since I have been commanded by bible, and my own morals. This has been a great dicussion guys, thanks to all who have been participating
GlenD
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I feel bad about the fact that you are at a church where your ministry niche and talents are not encouraged or welcomed. That's a bummer but not something you could overcome and still worship there and possibly minister in some other capacity. I totally agree with what bball said above! But perhaps there is another option for introducing gospel effects to some of your neighborhood kids. As far as continuing with magic in your neighborhood, by all means go for it! I think you should just do some fun entertaining type of tricks, without any message, and develop a little rapport or reputation even. I would assume word might get out and I would think the kids might end up dropping by with their mom or dad eventually (once they tell their parents that so and so is showing them magic. I don't know what ages of kids you are referring to, probably all ages I assume. So if younger ones come with a parent then I would think that would be a perfect opportunity to add in an effect with a gospel message. For those whose parents might have a strong sense of denying "church" or any word about Christ to their own children then they can shield them a little longer and not let them come back to see your magic. Otherwise you're adding in a message with folks that you've already had some fun with and maybe you might connect with parents and create some great opportunities to share the good news to families. There are a lot of secret christians out there also, those that don't really let on much publicly about their beliefs that would respond favorably, I think. Especially if you were reinforcing in a creative way what they already believe. But you never know what you will run into when you're sharing gospel magic to the general public.
Anyways, God bless your efforts and give you wisdom! It sounds like your motivations are honorable, don't let your church rob you of your desire to reach people through gospel magic or naysayers in other areas!

GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-09-12 11:40, m15d1r3ct10n wrote:

But I do feel bad that there are many children out there who will not get the chance because their parents are non-belivers.



And you should respect the beliefs, or non belief of their parents. It's difficult enough to raise kids these days without having to debrief them everytime they encounter a "well meaning" evangelical. Fortunately my "godchild" is taking after his parents and at eight is already quite secure in his secular beliefs. So having to explain to him that some people believe in differnt things than you do isn't a problem. We just have a some difficulty getting him not to share his non-belief with his schoolmates at times..
But I'm sure other parents wishing to bring their children up in a the rationalist lifestyle really don't appreciate having their children preached to, especially when they are not around.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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