I am wondering what you would all think of using one liners made famous by other big named magicians.

Example: Bill Malone said, "I really love your shirt.. Keep wearing it. It will come back in fashion, I promise."

Of course, this is just one quick example that came to mind. I would really like to use this as it would fit in well with my own script. However, I know it's been made famous by Bill Malone on his DVD's and respect if it's against ethics to use it.

This is not mimicking his persona or performance though. It's just the quote.

What do you think?

Small problem, I don't believe Bill originated the line LOL.

Thanks for your comment. Could be true..

It's also not a very funny line, IMO. This is not really an ethical issue, but an artistic one. The best humor comes from working with your audience in a funny way, not from the lines you use. I am not--generally speaking--a funny person. I don't mean I'm a boor. (I hope). I'm just not the kind of person who naturally keeps everyone in stitches at dinner parties.

But when I perform I usually get most people laughing--and I have no planned jokes whatsoever. Some kind of "silliness" creeps out which seems to be addictive. This is what you should try to achieve.

One last thought: (again, generally speaking) I've never been a fan of "insult" humor. Not only is it less funny to me than other forms; it is also too easy. It's the same for vulgarity. Anybody can insult people and make sex jokes (or do both at the same time, like making jokes about how small an audience member's member is). It takes extra effort and talent to be funny in a sophisticated way.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, that was a very insightful post. I steer very clear from sex jokes and any vulgarity. I have fairly strong morals and the line will ever be crossed with such jokes.

Regardless of the "fashion" joke by Bill Malone, there are many others which are not insulting. So still interested to hear thoughts on this topic.

About jokes which may insult, it is very IMPORTANT that it's part of your persona and you will be understood. Then it's ok IMO.

Just change shirt to shoes and you have a new line!

Definitely, Bill Malone did not create that line. I've seen it used in some movies dating back to the 50s.

But I agree that it is a bad line. You might as well say "Who shot the couch?". Good to have in the back burner to use in case of a heckler but is really considered unoriginal when used.



Adding to my post and to really answer your question...

I would avoid using direct quotes. Change them up to fit a situation you are creating with your routines. Change a word here and there.

You might be considered a real hack if you use lines that are recognized the world over. "I get no respect" was a signature Rodney Dangerfield bit. Now you can change it to use in a situation such as: (note this is a bad example but it is just off the top of my head)

You are doing a routine with Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. You make them disappear and state "just like Rodney Dangerfield, I get no Reeses". It plays homage to him while making it your own.

Why?

Are you performing as their character? Are you supposedly channeling them? Are you offering a parody of who they are?

Just imagine one of their close friends is attending your show. What would you tell them when they ask you why you are using that material?

Could you ask who the "Big name" was channelling?

Honestly, most honest magicians will have to come to grips with the fact that their humor is not totally original.
I have spent some time watching Comedy Centrals stand up comics. After a while, you have heard the majority of the stuff before. Sorry, but there is very little new material. Even the new material runs on the old standards, merely tweaks it for different circumstances.

If a "name" gets mad cause you used a line he rightfully stole..... He would get a big fat "WHAAAAAA?" from me.

Now having said all that. You hear a line from wherever and use it when the situation arises, I don't see a problem, because there isn't one.
BUT you take a whole script and repeat it, without permission (Via book, DVD or being personally taught or having asked and told yes) then you might want to reconsider.

Whit Haydn makes some very good points against originality in magic for beginners. But that does not mean theft is condoned. Then you might want to consider what your going to do when you don't want to be a beginner.




There are certainly some lines that are recognizable (I get no respect, don't have a cow man, etc.) even though they were not completely original, you go around using that as your catch phrase, you are now wearing the badge of hackery. Don't do that.

Folks, if you are doing as your teacher/mentor instructed to start getting feedback on a routine that's fine.

Of course you need to start somewhere and getting audience feedback from your work on a known script is a great place to start.

That's not the same as grabbing (use without permission) lines you hear from a comedy club or tag lines from other working performers.

There are plenty of sources for bits of business that are old as the hills... and I am sure many performers use these lines in their patter all the time. But this old stuff is fair game for anyone. It's the original stuff that will get us in trouble... the problem is determining the difference between them.

Published patter and routines are fair game for use, the lines and bits of business are there for a reason. I believe that until I, as a student, have matured enough in my study of magic to understand why it is this way, I shouldn't change the structure and script of a routine. When I progress to the point that I understand the timing and reasoning /then/ I may personalize the routine.

I am going to get my two cents in on this subject. First of all, if a performer puts something, ANYTHING, on a video tape or DVD for sale to the public, then whoever buys that video can use ANYTHING on that video. The "filmed" performer should shut his mouth and has no right to whine. This includes the tricks, routines, jokes,patter, clothes, etc. If you don't want your material stolen, don't put it on a video for sale-PERIOD. Anyone who complains that you borrowed something from so and so's video can go jump in the lake. You paid for it, he sold it, he profited from it, it's now yours. Same goes with books. Also, many of those jokes are just old gags, I have heard so many versions of that shirt joke, "HEY NICE SHIRT- WHEN IS THE REST OF THE BOWLING TEAM GONNA SHOW UP?" ETC. ETC. Bill Malone probably did not write that joke, so use it and don't worry about it. I also disagree with the perfomers who dicatate that insult jokes are not funny- Don Rickles continues to make a huge career out of it (probably going on four decades), Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" bits are just making fun of people, Lisa Lampanelli's (Comedy Central) act is all insults, Triumph the Insult Dog on Conan is hilarious- there are many different types of comedy, and if you don't like insult type humor, then don't watch it. But to say it's not funny to some people, or has no place in magic, is incorrect.

Posted: Sep 14, 2007 10:03pm
Here is another thought too- there is in comedy something known as "parallel thinking". How many times have you heard comics do bits about "Scotty" on Star Trek "Captain, we need more power!" or they do a bit about how parents nowadays do not spank thier kids, they give them a "time out" (yeah, my dad took "time out" to whup my bottom!)etc. etc. Many times several different performers actually think of the same concept at the same time- what sucks is, the one who gets in front of the largest crowd, on tv, or at a magic convention-is now the one who that joke or gag gets attributed to. If another magician is out there working magic conventions, and he is doing a gag that you independently thought of too, does that mean you can't use it? Heck no!!! It's still yours, and don't let these people push you around. Parallel thinking in jokes for magic happens all the time, because you are so limited by the themes for the tricks themselves (Example: Egg Bag- what comes to mind? Jokes about chickens, eggs, yolks, etc. So there is going to be more than one person with the same train of thought.)

There is a difference in using the material of others and making it your own. I use the CASE method. Copy AND Steal Everything -- but with ethics.

Would you write some about those ethics? When is it ethical to do what you described?

I mainly use some of the words .However I do give credit to who used them after the trick is finished.Thers only one I use a lot the coin vanish patter Ben Stiller used in the movie "A night at the museum" fun little thing to use with youths.

I wrote a line back in 84. I used it in my act for 6 years. Then I bought a dvd and a well known performer used the line. Did he steal it from me?? No. He independently thought of it himself. No harm done.

Unfortunatly, now when I do the line, I hear guys at the Magic Club whisper "he stole that from so and so"!

I learned that there are no copyrights on "words you use".

If you can pull it off, I say use whatever works for you even if some other "famous" magician is using it as well.

Depends if you're a comic doing a little bit of magic or a magician doing a little bit of comedy. Is it important that they laugh? Why?

Rory, your logic is flawed (any Vulcan on Star Trek). Just because something is on video does not mean it is ripe for the taking. It depends what the intentions of the video are. I have many performance videos. By your statement, I can take a clown routine from Cirque Du Soleil and copy it to do as my own. I can perform David Copperfield's Changing Panties routine.

Now legally I might have a leg to stand on, but we are talking ethics here, not legalities (often two different things).

I slip in some comedy durning some tricks,making them laugh makes the audence feel better as they say "laughter is the best medicine". It adds some excitement to the patter you use.

Posted: Sep 22, 2007 9:37pm
What helps is you put your personality into it,and it makes it flow better.your friends will see it as easy as sharing other everyday things with them.Just remember being open & expressive is key to sucess.

I believe it is fine to use these types of '1 liners' because you can't exactly copywrite the english language:S also a lot of stand up comedians use jokes that they have 'borrowed' and that is there main aim...to make people laugh. If it can work for them it can work for you, you have your main thing your magic to fall back on if all goes wrong, however there isn't much to go wrong in the first place.

For artistic (not ethical) reasons, I say no to using one-liners period.