The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Review request: three-way comparison of "bills from lemon" (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Mumblemore
View Profile
Inner circle
1436 Posts

Profile of Mumblemore
While people have compared Bet your Bucks and Final Answer on another thread, they didn't do a three-way including the older one, Malloy's Lemon Game. Which one is the best? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? I see more used Malloys up for sale now that Alexander and Fisher are selling theirs. Is The Lemon Game "obsolete" (the prize drawings do look a little 1980s-ish, as one poster commented on another thread). If you were to buy one for a family show, which would it be? Are there others out there we should also consider?

Thanks for any feedback.
montemagic
View Profile
Elite user
San Diego, CA
471 Posts

Profile of montemagic
I currently use a version of Steve Spills via Doc Eason (Bar Magic Series). I perform 3 nights a week for an audience of about 60 people, and it never fails to amaze. With Docs version you can create any kind of story line and have the lemons in the audience or hanging in bags on stage, giving the spectators a free choice. More importantly it is extremely simple, extremely reliable, and CHEAP!

Matt
Aim To Amaze
korttihai_82
View Profile
Inner circle
Finland
1797 Posts

Profile of korttihai_82
I have em all and I have used em all infront of live audiences on paid gigs. They all have their pros and cons and its rather hard to compare em all because especially bet your bucks and final answer allow so much creativity on performers part to make em totally your own, but I try my best.

LEMON GAME

Lemon game by Malloy was the first one I got over 5 years ago I think. Before it I had used Easons, Malones, Richardsons and Cloutiers versions for years depending on situation

In short the spectator lends a bill that is put into small bag and given to spectator to hold. Spec is then allowed to partisipate into gameshow type game where he choses a big card and the chosen card is put hanging on visible place. The other cards, that spectator didn't chose are shown to contain huge prices like car or trip to hawaii and so on but spectator didn't win any of those.

There is a lot of by play with prices and lot of jokes and so on. After all this the spectator is asked to make a desicion between the beg, with his bill inside or the mystery card. What ever he choses the routine continues by spectator getting the prize that is a lemon.

Magicians takes a netted closed bag from his case that is seen to be full of lemons. Spectator reaches in and choses one lemon. Lemon is cut open, by magician, and inside is seen to be a bill. Spectator takes out the note and verifies its his signed bill. Lemon is given as souvenir for spectator along with the bill.

Positive notes.
- Comes completely with everything but the lemon. Briefcase, cards, holder for em, marker, knife, netbag and so on.
- Full 10min routine word for word
- Maybe still best routine of all the 3
- Only bill in lemon that comes to mind that has real motivation for bill ending up in lemon

Negative
- Well, for some this may be the issue, but the method really isn't anything earthshaking. Actually it is pretty much common bill to lemon method and with that in mind it has the same problems. Also for nervous people the chosing of the lemon and letting spectators handle it might be nerv wrekking.
- Is pretty much purely stage or palour routine. Cant be used in close-up.
- The lemon cant be in view with the basic method from the start.

Well worth the money and can be used with either Final Answer or Bet your bucks to create uber bill in lemon monster routine.

FINAL ANSWER, Scott Alexander

This is the second one I got. Its basically Doc Eason/Steve Spill routine with some steroids.

The basic routine starts by getting spectator up on stage and magicians borrows a bill from him and the bill is signed and given back to spectator to hold on hemostat clips. Magicians then shows his lunch, a lemon and some marshmallows. The whole lunch is inside clear plastic bag and magician never touches inside the bag. This bag is dropped into paper bag and is given into audience.

This is followed by giving out also knife to audience ala Doc Eason/Steve Spill routine and the caretakers are also given some comedic roles. Remember, all this time the spectator is apparently been holding his own bill. 3 envelopes are introduced and bill is put into one of em and they are mixed. Spectator choses 2 of the envelopes and they are destroyed by burning a la Terry Seabrooke.

The last envelope however doesn't contain the bill as it should be and magician offers spectator his lunch. That doesn't seem much until the knife is introduced again and lemon is cut open and spectators signed bill is inside. So pretty much

Positive
- Again, completely thought out 10-15min routine
- Access to Bob Kohler magic inner forums with tons of superb ideas
- The lemon can be introduced pretty much at any part of the routine and can be in full view right from the start. Think lemon game with bowl of lemons on the table for instance.
- Basically magician doesn't even touch the lemon (Its in clear plastic bag when you touch it)
- The gimmick is rather versatile
- Gives out a performer most leeway to create their own routines

Mixed:
- Marketed as can be used in close-up as well but at least I don't have the courage to do so. The dvd´s also contain close-up and palour routines.
- Prepping the lemon is hard if you don't live where you can get right kind of lemons. Like here in Finland I found out that mandarine or satsumas work much better than our “hard” lemons.
- The adds claim that spectators can cut the lemon themselves but I also feel this is rather risky but again, I am sometimes little nervous about these sorts of things.
- Very similar items as the "gimmick" is sold much much cheaper in little different form and at least one spanish magician teaches pretty much similar thing on his lectures and sells em for like 30-40euros
- the load can be little risky... When I watched the show part of the dvd before I had opened up my box of gimmick I caught the time when the load was made. Same happened with a former magician cousine of mine. HOWEVER we both knew we were going to see bill to lemon routine so we were constantly looking for the load.


Negative
- Most expensive of the all 3. Now it is said that where in lemon game, you get a ton of stuff for your buck, here you get just 3hours of dvd material and one gimmick that you must replace possibly at some point. Some have even said that for 400$ this felt overpriced. In a way, now that I have all 3 of these I do have to agree a little. 250-300$ woudnt be so bad but again, if you use it, its well worth the money.
- In my case I don't use it anymore. I found out that I get out better routine by combining lemon game to bet your bucks but again, its a matter of personal preference.
- The lemons don't withstand heavy inspection and not even visual everytime because of the way of the preparation.

Who is this for? I would say that those who might want to do bill in lemon also in close-up or creative people who like to come up with their own routines. don't get me wrong, the routines on the dvd are very good as they are as well.

Also for those thinking how this really is different from Eason routine that is 20$ is the fact that the load is really done right infront of people (not inside bag and TT is not used in this one) and they don't have a clue (unless they are magicians but who cares about that).

BET YOUR BUCKS by Cody Fisher

The newest one of the 3. I will describe the Fishers Magic castle routine for this.

At some point in show the spectator bill is signed and borrowed with a joke where it is put inside a tipjar full of bills and jar is put aside on visible place. Bag of mystery is given to audience and show is continued.

At one point in show the attention is brought back onto the tip jar and lender of the bill is asked to come to stage cos he has a chance to win his money back. The jar is opened and bill is taken out and shown to audience with a signature and put inside envelope.

The envelope is mixed with other envelopes and all are eliminated by burning, except one envelope. Inside the envelope however isn't the bill and it looks things have gone wrong.

However, way earlier from the show there has been bag of mystery, or nest of boxes or anything in the audience. Spectator is asked to go get that himself. Magician doesn't go even near it. Spectator himself can open it and inside is lemon and knife. The spectator himself can cut the lemon and take his own bill from inside it. Magicians doesn't touch or go near it at all during this time. In the end spectator gets his bill back and gets lemon as a present to make some lemonade.

Positive
- Ingenius way of loading the lemon right infront of audience and they don't a clue and neither does magicians unless they know whats coming
- Lemon is sealed and it can withstand the heaviest inspection of all the above versions. When I saw the system I immediately hitted myself in the head and thought why I havent thought of this before. It is simply ingenious and can be used in every other bill in lemon that I know.
- In the routine your simply so way ahead of the audience that they don't have a chance.
- Cheapest of all 3
- Full 10-15min routine


Mixed
- Not really workable in close-up enviroment cos requires “Something” that is rather large
- The price is still little mixed. Fisher tells on the dvd that the something is expensive to make but still... 300$ for the something and the dvd? Well, you get totally thought out 10-15min complete routine so as with above 2. If you use it, well worth the money.

Negative
- Not really an close-up effect
- The something that allows it all to happen is rather large


Overview of the all three

All 3 are completely thought out 10-15min routines.

Lemon game alone cant be changed much and for methological standpoint its the weakest of the three but this might bother only magicians cos laymen will never see the method and even in lemon game its so well hidden that Laymen don't have a chance...

Final Answer as allready stated is best used as a tool to create your own routine. It offers lot of variation.

Bet your bucks could also be consider as a tool that lets you borrow a bill with a reason and same time load it into lemon and seal the lemon in the process in like 5-10 seconds and no one has a clue about it. The disadvantage is that it is rather large.

Lemon game has the best complete routine of all three. It remains only one that has reason for the bill ending up in the lemon. For some reason I don't care much about the presentation that the other two use with burning the envelopes. Of course you can chance it as you wish.

Also keep in mind that you can combine the methods of all 3 in many different ways to make some uber killer routine. For instance the lemon games presentation could be used in the later two as well or final asnwer or bet your bucks can be both used to load the bill in lemon game. Also the bet your bucks sealing method can be used in lemon game and final answer without any problems. Actually, in my case, with bad lemon supply, I found out that final answer was actually best to use along with this sealing and totally different preparation. In this way the lemon would withstand much much more heavy inspection.

Its really hard to compare em as you might have noticed if you read this far. They all have their pros and cons. If I would have to decide I still would get the lemon game first but just because I really really like the presentation. After that I would get bet your bucks just for the loading and sealing method. For me, at the moment, the weakest is the final asnwer. That is mainly because I am not using it but I am constantly still playing with it. It is still overall the best choise if you don't want to do just basic palaour or stage routine.

In the end, you really cant go wrong with any of em. If you are serious professional, then it wont even matter much to invest em all and make a routine of your own. Its maybe around 1000$ but for pros, that's like 1 gig so who cares? For 1000$ you will get 15mins to your act completely thought out basically and to me that would be a bargain.

If you are hobbyist I can only ask why are you reading this in the first place? In my opinion any of these isn't for you unless you perform regularly for paying audiences.

Hope some of it helped.

J-M
runawayjag
View Profile
Inner circle
1085 Posts

Profile of runawayjag
Wow. Now that was a really clear and lucid comparison. If only others made posts as intelligent and to the point. Outstanding.
Mumblemore
View Profile
Inner circle
1436 Posts

Profile of Mumblemore
Yes, thank you korttihai_82 for answering the question extremely thoroughly and thoughtfully. All I can say is I hope Iceland gets a better lemon crop soon (or try imported kiwis or, as you said, tangerines).

Again thanks for turnign a thread I was hesitant about starting for fear of redundancy, into a treasure trove of originality.

Todd
Steven Conner
View Profile
Inner circle
2468 Posts

Profile of Steven Conner
How does Whit Haydn's Teleportation Device compare with these three?
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
padre rich
View Profile
Special user
521 Posts

Profile of padre rich
Whit's is the only one I have performed . I closed my show with it for a decade. It never failed to please EVER. It's the best constructed routine I've ever performed. I highy recommend it.
Blessings+++,
Rich
God's grace rocks! It makes a good cups and balls routine look pretty boring in comparison.
korttihai_82
View Profile
Inner circle
Finland
1797 Posts

Profile of korttihai_82
Hayden version is very nice indeed but it was sold out allready few years back and Whit said then that he wasnt going to make it back on the market any time soon.

J-M
Steve Pellegrino
View Profile
Loyal user
224 Posts

Profile of Steve Pellegrino
Whit's version IS back on the market. You can order it directly from Whit:

http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore......ucts.htm
Joshua Barrett
View Profile
Inner circle
Cincinnati, Ohio
3627 Posts

Profile of Joshua Barrett
Can any of these done surrounded easily enough?
Potty the Pirate
View Profile
Inner circle
4620 Posts

Profile of Potty the Pirate
I use Final Answer all the time. It's true that in the DVD, the s****h is visible, but hey, ten miutes in front of a mirror, and you'll easily work out a "perfect" handling - there certainly is one. Yes, it takes a few minutes to master, but I find the handling incredibly tactile and simple. It CAN be performed surrounded - again you need to do some work to find out the exact handling.
I found Bet Your Bucks has a talking problem which for my mind needed a servante to fix. Otherwise, a good routine, but for my money not nearly as clever as FA.
I don't have The Lemon Game, but I do present my Bill in Lemon as "The Treasure Game", which has a vague similarity to Lemon Game, though it's a pirate "con trick", not a game show. It seems to me that FA also comes with the most complete routine - heaps of gags, though admittedly no logical reason for the bill to be in the lemon in Scott's presentation. But it's SO easy to come up with your own routine, and if you want a reason for the final reveal, you can build it in.
One small problem I still am working on is the destruction of the spectator's note. I love to burn the money, but rarely have the opportunity to have an open fire such as this during a show. I like the idea of a shredder, but I have one problem with incongruity....in most presentations, the note is folded or rolled up into a small wad before it's destroyed. But if I were going to shred the note, I'd leave it flat, surely?
What other ways could the note be destroyed?
Joshua Barrett
View Profile
Inner circle
Cincinnati, Ohio
3627 Posts

Profile of Joshua Barrett
Potty iv been thinking of that as well in regards to destroying the bill.

400 bucks is a lot tho and I can't figure out why it needs to be updated? seems strange to me
Steve Hook
View Profile
Inner circle
Raleigh, NC, USA
1264 Posts

Profile of Steve Hook
Joshua:

They're $300 to $350, right?

I was wondering what you meant by "updated".

As was said, $350 is not a lot for a complete 10 to 15 minute professional routine.

There are so many methods which will fool a layman completely, it's not like anyone can't just use one of those, especially the Bill Malone routine.

Don't sweat the price! Do one of the good $20 - $35 routines! Heck, you might even find out you hate lemons.

In fact, off-topic, that brings me to one of my pet peeves: I loved the "Corporate Closeup" DVD by Martin Sanderson (short, punchy, direct walkaround routines) but one couldn't help but notice that while Martin's "Bill to Kiwi" routine was great, he didn't elaborate on how he manages a dripping kiwi in his suit pocket. Sure, we can come up with something, but he could have added that little detail to the DVD.

~ Steve H
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
Joshua Barrett
View Profile
Inner circle
Cincinnati, Ohio
3627 Posts

Profile of Joshua Barrett
Steve I honestly don't know. its been mentioned on the Café several times that the gimmick needs updating or has been updated. its hard to spend that kind of money never seeing the routine, or even knowing if the gimmicks gonna do what you need it to ect ect, and this updating thing has me real puzzled
Potty the Pirate
View Profile
Inner circle
4620 Posts

Profile of Potty the Pirate
Joshua, as long as you look after your gimmick carefully, it will last for hundreds of performances over many years. My gimmick is about 3-4 years old, yet still works perfectly. If you don't look after your gimmick properly, it's possible to ruin it very quickly. So it's good that it costs $400, you're not likely to forget what you have to do!
Also, the "updating" will be done for a minimal charge, though I don't yet know what "minimal" means.
Personally, I think this blows all the others out of the water. I just performed it, and the lemon was loaded so quickly, to the audience, it looked as if I just took a plastic bag containing a lemon from a kid, held it up high for everyone to see, and handed it back. Yet during that time, I loaded the lemon. Remember though, I've done this hundreds of times, and I'm usually pretty darn good at loading. Occasionally I have more trouble, but never anything to worry about. I also allow the spectator to handle the gimmick every time, no one has ever noticed anything unusual about it. The spectator also removes the lemon from the bag, is allowed a cursory inspection, then I take it from them and hold it while they cut it open.
This is not only the most effective method, but also the easiest. Although Bet Your Bucks is ostensibly straightforward, I have a lot more trouble with it. I guess it comes down to this: would you rather spend a little time working with the FA gimmick until you have a quick, silent, and imperceptible load, or go with BYB, which is easy to perform, but is what I would call "clumsier". Becvause of this, I feel it requires a servante before it goes into the "miracle" class.
By the way, Joshua, Scott's routine for Final Answer is awesome! You get it when you buy the routine. 15 minutes long, and VERY funny, it beats BYB and Lemon Game hands down, in my opinion! Loads of gags that you can use in ANY bill in lemon trick, in fact, the gags work nicely for lots of effects. Not only is the gimmick the best, but the routine is a masterpiece.
Final Answer is quite possibly the best investment I've ever made, and I have LOTS of kit! A modest investment in time and money, and you have a real worker. Enough, or everyone will be using it.....
:)
I met Martin Sanderson recently, he seems like a very nice chap. Steve, why not email him and ask about storing the Kiwi? Or what about a plastic bag?
I also have Berland's Bill in Lemon, which I bought from Hocus Pocus. A nice method, and much cheaper. At the end of the day, the trick is a real winner. The method you choose is up to you. My students use the Mark Wilson method, and the effect is identical to laymen.
Cody S. Fisher
View Profile
V.I.P.
Austin, Texas
1184 Posts

Profile of Cody S. Fisher
BYB:

Well...I am certainly not "clumsy" with it! ;-)

It's actually quite easy...if you can put a bill inside a lemon and press down with your finger...you can do it! It does not get any easier...I don't think!

You also make it sound VERY big...it's actually not big at all and certainly does not arouse ANY suspicion from the audience. The load and seal is absolutely imperceptable to the audience! Finally concerning all this "noise" you are talking about...simply put a towl in the bottom of your case...problem solved!

Cody S. Fisher
To Sign Up For My Members Only FREE Monthly Videos Visit: www.CodyFisher.com/store

Cody's Comedy Confabulation / Silk-2-Egg / Killer Prediction / Tossed Out Deck / Comedy Book Test / Las Vegas Aces / Three Ropes & 1000 Laughs
Potty the Pirate
View Profile
Inner circle
4620 Posts

Profile of Potty the Pirate
Cody, I didn't mean to imply that your method isn't also very innovative and clever. BYB has a very cool prop which I really like. And I agree the actual handling is straightforward. The reason I said I felt it was "clumsier" is more down to the fact that FA is so elegant.
Of course, I've tried the towel in the case, but I find a soft cushion works better, or as I said, a servante removes any sound at all.
All the methods being discussed on this thread are workers, I personally prefer FA. Of course, it comes down to personal preference. korttihai above prefers BYB over FA, and that's fair enough.
As I mentioned in another thread, the FA gimmick can ONLY be used for bill in lemon, but the BYB gimmick has a multitude of uses, and I see it as a very useful utility prop. Use BYB to vanish and load ANY small object you like. I no longer use it for bill in lemon.
Doug
:)
Cody S. Fisher
View Profile
V.I.P.
Austin, Texas
1184 Posts

Profile of Cody S. Fisher
Thanks for clearing that up Doug...

Take Care,
Cody S. Fisher
To Sign Up For My Members Only FREE Monthly Videos Visit: www.CodyFisher.com/store

Cody's Comedy Confabulation / Silk-2-Egg / Killer Prediction / Tossed Out Deck / Comedy Book Test / Las Vegas Aces / Three Ropes & 1000 Laughs
TrickyRicky
View Profile
Inner circle
TrickyRicky
1609 Posts

Profile of TrickyRicky
BYB for me.
I like the F/A but the only problem is, you have to do you know what twice.
I did BYB at wedding the other day, my table was standing close up to everyone.
Please remember, they don't know the secret.
Richard
gmmagic124
View Profile
Special user
751 Posts

Profile of gmmagic124
Quote:
Overview of the all three
All 3 are completely thought out 10-15min routines.


This is true.
Quote:
On 2007-11-15 11:53, Richard Lyn wrote:

Please remember, they don't know the secret.
Richard


Good point.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Review request: three-way comparison of "bills from lemon" (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.37 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL