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Brian Lehr Inner circle Edmonton, Canada 1605 Posts |
Most of my previous shows have been at fairs/festivals/birthdays/libraries/etc., but lately I have started doing more school shows. One of the things I discovered is how terrible the acoustics are in the gyms. I use a Fender Passport 150, with a wireless Samson headset, and the miCue with iPod. Yesterday, the vocals and the music were embarrassing, even with the adjustments. It seems to sound good when I'm setting up, but when 200 bodies enter the room for the show, I end up having to try and re-adjust several times in the middle of the show (not very professional).
Does anyone have any good tips on how to get the best sound quality inside a school gymnasium? Brian |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Have somebody control levels from the audience perspective (audio engineer...or just your body controlling the music). The way the sound sounds from onstage is really different than the sound heard in the audience.
Cut the treble down on the mic. The higher frequencies seem to bounce around a lot more than lower ones. Have more speakers (two near stage and then two further down the gymnasium). You won't have to have the volume up as loud and create a more even sound. |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
Brian...
Welcome the world of working in schools. Gyms suck....period! I always try to get my program booked in the Caféteria if at all possible. Of course, sometimes they just have to have you in the gym. One thing that I always do is make sure that my speaker in off to the left side of me and in front of me facing the audience. Also make sure that the speaker(s) are "in the air" above the crowd so that the sound is not aimed at the feet of the audience. The main problem is just what you stated...sounds great before hand and then the kids enter and the sound quality goes way down. Also, you can get major "echo" in a gym. Just make sure that the volume is not too loud but also loud enough for them to hear. I would suggest making volume adjustements after all of the kids are in but not during the show. |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Volume adjustments can be made by having music playing while they are waiting for the show to begin. A couple quick clicks and pops on the mic will give an indication of sound. But if you have to, you can do a full sound check when the audience is there. No not as professional, but then at the same time, it is better to fix problems before you begin the show then during and interupting the flow.
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
I agree!
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
As todd says gym suck and in most cases you have deal with it. I use a backdrop in my show and all my sound setup is behind that backdrop including my mic stuff. Often I go behind my backdrop to get a puppet for ex. and that gives the best time to make a change on my sound system.
Also I had a samson and had NO luck with it. I could never get it sound the way I like. I have been for the past 6 years using a shure the pg series I think it is called. Also I use the countryman mic which has been great for me and sounds perfect in every way. I to use the passport PD150, it is a work horse. Do you have the PD verison? Ken |
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Hi Brian.
Gymnasium acoustics usually have a huge amount of natural reverberation. Sound quality can actually be adjusted to sound very good when it is empty and quiet. The problem is when a gymnasium fills up with people, especially restless kids, the noise they make becomes a big problem. Any slight noise in a gym seems to be amplified. A cough or scooting chair is awful and there really isn't much you can do about that. I find that when the kids are seated on the floor it's usually quieter than when they are in chairs. As for the sound from your PA, an equalizer will usually help, but I know the Fender Passport has limited EQ capabilities. A 15 or 31 band EQ to taylor the overall mix would be nice, but maybe not practical. A compressor can help too. I feel the best thing you can do when using a system without detailed EQ (like the Passport) is to turn down the effects (reverb/delay). It will probably sound better with the reverb off in places with a large amount of natural reverb. As for the noise generated by the audience, well, that's another problem altogether! Good luck! Regan
Mister Mystery
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Sound CANNOT be successfully controlled from the stage. One answer may be to add an additional sound board at FOH to control levels.
As far as speaker placement... Get the speakers higher up, then angle them down towards the audience, then will help eliminate some of the sound 'slapping' off the back wall of the gym. Another option is to put some pipe and drape at the back wall of the gym to absorb some of the sound. Last but not least...you shouldn't wait to adjust the sound only during the show...If you can't run the sound from FOH, then you should be adjusting it during some pre show music, announcements, etc. There should be plenty of people in the gym at that time to get a good feel of the room's acoustics. Hope that helps Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
Kevin makes great points. The music should be adjusted in pre show . As far as having the sound in front, that is the perfect setting if you have someone working with you. But when you are one man show and you are the performer, sound guy, stage hand, all the above having the sound near you is really the only option.
Ken |
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Brian Lehr Inner circle Edmonton, Canada 1605 Posts |
Thanks for the suggestions!
Yes, Ken, I am using the PD. I had purchased the Samson before I had done much research. I'm a lot of good comments about the Shure. May have to get one of those next. I do have the kids sitting on the floor, but the adults (for afternoon or evening family shows) sit in chairs. Can't angle the speakers, as the stands only go up and down. I do have them up pretty high, though, and facing the audience. I was playing some pre-show music, with some comedy announcements added into the tracks. The music sounded fine, but the announcements came out garbled. Also, during the show, several of my soundtracks for the various effects were sound perfect, but the Necklace Quest and Axtell soundtracks were very low, that I had to go and turn up the volume twice during the effects (even after turning the miCue remote up all the way). This is the first time I've used the PD in such a setting. Most of the school shows were just the reading shows for small groups of kids (up to 100), so I used a smaller system; but this time I was doing a big family show after the two reading shows, so I brought out the big guns. At least I have some good ideas as to what to watch out for during the next time I use it in a gym. Thanks again. Brian PS. Regan, I finally had a chance to use the Jigsaw illusion that I purchased from you. The kids and the parents loved seeing me saw one of the teachers in half! Thanks again. |
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Chad C. Inner circle 1522 Posts |
The Axtrax are a lot more quiet than other music that you would use - I am not sure why this is, but I have noticed that as well. My sound system has always been loud enough, but it could be a problem if your icue is already maxed out and your system isn't set loud enough.
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Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
I've discovered the same thing about the Axtrax...especially the "Art-O-Matic"...but I think that's due in part to the "look-don't see" aspect and the audience's reactions. I'll be using the "Houdini" track for the first time tomorrow, and we'll see how that goes in an outdoor setting.
Steve |
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Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie Special user Toronto, Canada 804 Posts |
MAN am I ever GRUMPY tonight! Here goes.
Ignore most of what's been recommended in this thread. Read Kevin's (Living Illusions) post several times, and commit it to memory. While it certainly is true (and understandable) that many folks cannot afford a professional sound person, you just need to be aware that it is not possible to do sound well from on-stage. That's all I got tonight.
Dan McLean Jr
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
Dan I don't' think anyone here disgrees with you but again if someone like "we" are that work in schools with a one man show you don't have that luxury of having a sound guy. Kevin has an illusion show with assistants. We are working in hot school gyms. Sure I would love my own crew to be with me at schools but I am not making 2-3000.00 at school shows. So what brian is asking is practical advice that he can use right away I nmaking his sound sound better.
By the way Brian I saw a great show in a gym about 2 years at a high school. They had a crew of about 5 people with a sound guy and the sound still sounded very bad. Ken |
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-14 16:55, Brian Lehr wrote: Great! I'm glad you are putting it to good use! By the way, I agree with Ken here. There are just some things that I would be wonderful but are not possible or practical for some of us.
Mister Mystery
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axtell V.I.P. Steve Axtell 2126 Posts |
Gym acoustics are really bad because the sound bounces....but regarding the different volume levels between CDs I will offer this suggesion.
You can equalize all your volumes so your show is consistent so nothing is louder or quieter than a previous track. One way to do this is to bring each of the (wav or mp3) tracks into one piece of audio software. You can get Audacity free on line at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Once you have all your sound files for your show inside you can "NORMALIZE" them. This is a function that will compress and increase levels so everything is of similar volumes. Then you can output each piece as an MP3 or WAV file that has been corrected. Hope this helps. Steve Axtell
Axtell Expressions, Inc.
Pro Puppets, Magic & Animatronics |
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Brian Lehr Inner circle Edmonton, Canada 1605 Posts |
Thanks Steve (and others).
Actually, from my experience with the Art-O-Matic, the starting volume would have to be even higher than the others, simply because of the screams that will take place as soon as the mouth begins to move. Brian |
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adam christopher Veteran user 316 Posts |
A good solution is to play your show wide not deep, don't know accoustically why it works but it does
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axtell V.I.P. Steve Axtell 2126 Posts |
Axtell is also in production on a new series of AxTrax which are only 2 min. in length...with minimal memorization. They are "AxTrax: Quick & Easy". This are being produced with the magician in mind, for quicker bits that you can use in between other tricks in your show. Now it will be easier to bring out the same character a few times, or switch to another character. They will have all 5 voices on them still....and these will be available as mp3 downloads via the internet. Just a heads up on what's coming!
Ax
Axtell Expressions, Inc.
Pro Puppets, Magic & Animatronics |
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Steve...
So I assume you are saying that the tracks, by being only 2 minutes long, will help the acoustics in gyms?..LOL Sorry, just had to, it was too easy. Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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