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caligari New user 69 Posts |
Fantastic advice!
Nothing beats practicing and actually performing to get better! This is a great post, thanks for the insight! |
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0045 New user 70 Posts |
Wonderful advice on this post.
I started with the "Royal Road to card magic" and practiced like a demon (Still do) However I did find that my eagerness to perform for people in the beginning far outpaced my actual ability, also some of the effects explained in the book did not (and still do not) really appeal to me. I decided to treat myself once a month to the Ammar easy to master card series on DVD (I now have them all) and also to one or two classic card magic books. These sources provide a wealth of self working and semi automatic effects as well as some of the more advanced stuff, which kept me from becoming bored with nothing but practicing slieght based effects, it also gave me the chance to practice actual performance and misdirection techniques. Although the practicing of sleights is vitaly important, do not neglect the equally important aspect of practicing performance stlye in order to feel completely at ease when the more difficult techniques have been learned, there are a great many easy to perform effects which in my opinion get better reactions that some of the harder stuff I have practiced for ages. Regards 0045 |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
0045, you are spot on with your comments - Congratulations - it seems that you are on the right way and have the right mindset to master this art.
It is true that a magic trick does not only require a flawless sleight execution, but also the right presentation and mindset. And in order to do so, you need to be able to do all the secret work effortless, I dare say . . . automatically, at the right time (off beat). Andy
Cards never lie
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0045 New user 70 Posts |
Ha Ha Andy
It seems we definately have the same mindset, just retuned to this post and noticed that we have both misspelled the word "sleight" Perhaps we went to the same school. Regards 0045 |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
LOL - guess we both love to take people on a sleight ride . . .
Cards never lie
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Cyar Regular user 132 Posts |
Great discussion. I've found a wealth of useable and applicable advice throughout here. I know I have to cut down on my own compulsion to buy new items. I always rationalize, "I'm saving $$$ off the retail price," instead of that I'm spending money on things I don't need right now. Ebay can be addicting, lol.
I told those f***s down at the league office a thousand times that I don't roll on Shabbos!
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
Money spent is money gone, no matter how big the savings are . . .
Cards never lie
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NurseRob Elite user Dallas, TX 469 Posts |
I am a beginner also, and I would like to develop good practice habits. I oft times feel It is pointless to repeat moves that I do badly in the hopes that it will improve with repitition..what I need is a coach who will correct my mistakes, and make me run laps if I screw up...end result= better skills and slimmer waistline.
Ut imago est animi voltus sic indices oculi ~
The face is a picture of the mind as the eyes are its interpreter ~Cicero |
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gardini Regular user Cornwall, Ontario, Canada 158 Posts |
Normally my wife watches the "how to VID's" with me so she can point out the mistakes that I'm making, its much easier for her to catch me knowing how the trick is done and when she can't catch the move anymore I know its ready for the public.
Scott |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
Nice wife - lucky you
Cards never lie
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VincentC New user 22 Posts |
So, quick beginner question for everyone out there, it doesn't really relate to the thread but I don't want to start a whole new thread for such a small question-
I'm a beginner as well(just started within the past month or so), working on coin sleights from Bobo's and Ammar's DVD right now. The problem is the only mirror I have is about 9x12 inches, so I can't really check angles very well. My question is do you think I am harming myself by practicing in such a small mirror? I don't want ingrain bad movements into muscle memory, but I won't be able to grab a larger mirror for about 2-3 months. Should I wait till then? I really don't want to wait, but that whole "practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent" thing makes me second guess it. Opinions? Thanks, Vincent |
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-07 03:00, VincentC wrote: I think you should go ahead with what you have until the bigger mirror arrives. I have been practicing for about 20 months now, 18 of them without a mirror in front of me at all. (There is one out in the hallways but I usually practice sitting down on my bed. No mirror.) I don't believe that you will get permanently stuck at all if you learn a sleight one way. It is a myth like your parents tell you that if you stretch out your tongue and make a face, you are risking getting stuck like that forever. A few hundred repetitions in a different way and you have reprogrammed yourself. It's the same with playing an instrument. It would probably be different for an older person who has done something one way for years and years. But you shouldn't worry. If it wasn't easy to "reprogram" then you wouldn't be able to learn at all, because you WILL change a lot of what you do now in the months to come as you read and think and discover, mirror or not. Incidentally, I think a topic this different should have had it's own thread. Or, if this is one of those days when search actually works, you could find an old topic with words like "mirror" and "practice" in it and bump that.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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clarissa35f Veteran user 363 Posts |
Learn the mantra.. Practice, practice, practice... do not show off until you can do it perfectly, so practice until you can do it perfectly...and then...practice for another week or two.
Learn theory. Misdirection is one of the most important facets of magic. I was lucky that when I spoke with a salesperson about " Card tricks", he turned me onto Michael Ammar. Right from the beginning, he talks about the "True Secrets" of magic, and goes beyond the " methods". He spends a lot of time talking about Psychology, and Motivation for certain moves. How to misdirect, and when a pause is needed, ... and why. My favorite Quote that I would love all beginners to remember is.." A trick takes place in your hands, Magic takes place in the spectator's mind." You can never fool the spectator's eye, the eye sees all. It is the mind that interprets what the eye sees, what it considers important it will fix on, what it considers unimportant, it will gloss over. Magic happens in the spectator's mind...AFTER the trick is done. Memory determines if they will experience magic, or just a trick... so our job is to manipulate that memory, to re-enforce what we want them to focus on, to gloss over what we want them to neglect. To remember what we want them to remember... so we need to learn the RIGHT time to pause... so the effect builds in their minds. A pause at the wrong place will have them thinking of the wrong things too much. If it were not for Ammar, I would never have realized how important pacing is in magic. So, Practice, Misdirection, and Pacing. Magic takes place in the spectator's mind, not your hands.
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous> "There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn> |
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VincentC New user 22 Posts |
Thanks for the quick answer. I actually never spent much time on message boards till now, and honestly the search function never even crossed my mind when my question popped into my head. Mildly embarrassing, as the one other set of boards I DO regularly read(non-magic) is known for hammering newbies who don't use search before asking something. Very glad to see it's a much friendlier environment here. So thank you, Noobini, for taking the time to answer, I'm going to go with what you suggest and just practice regardless of the mirror size. I've got more than enough basic movements that I need to get better at that don't require a mirror at all that I can probably afford to skip it anyway. Thanks,
Vincent |
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rufio New user 6 Posts |
Clarissa35f's post rang absolutely true there. I think the biggest challenge when starting out in magic is resisting that temptation to show a trick you probably know will be prematurely shown in that its presentation has not been polished. I practice constantly when watching TV (effectively, the TV becomes the visual equivalent of background music). There were moments when performing for friends and strangers alike, for instance, that I had all the moves down but realised at the moment of execution that I was effectively improvising the patter. Whilst this had an impromptu feel, in hindsight the presentation was a "trick" and not magic. A magician friend told me that I need to work on my patter, and I have learnt that this is absolutely true, as presentation is integral if not the quintessence of the art of astonishment. Hence, why "Uncle Charlie showing a few card tricks" v.s. a serious magician who has considered presentation would clearly illustrate the bifurcation of spectators' responses. As a beginner, I used to struggle with pacing in that there were points when an effect seemed disjointed.
In essence, the countless hours of practice are wasted if the presentation has been lacklustre or even lukewarm. For once you have shown someone a trick, the old adage of a "magician never repeats a trick" is certainly true; you cannot return to them for a second take. Accordingly, the importance of silent scripting in your head, with pauses for anticipated responses from the spectator, internally role playing prior to showing it to a spectator, etc., is the best practice, and one that I overlooked for months. In the real world, you quickly learn what is good patter, and what best emphasises the magic. Having said this, I often cave in to temptation and prematurely show close friends something new. It's usually those pesky packet tricks as well. Rufio P.S. What a great forum this is! |
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jim_007 New user 7 Posts |
Vincent,
Just a thought, you might want to think about checking out a yard sale for a mirror. You may be able to pick one up for a couple of bucks. Then, you can Practice, Practice, Practice, as they say. As a trainer, I often tell my trainees to train properly. Practice in itself will not make you perfect, only perfect practice will. You can practice the wrong way. So, hone in on your skills and practice perfectly. Good Luck and welcome to the Café. |
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thepspdope Regular user With Roughly About 173 Posts |
Wow - just found this thread. Really great advice, Andy, and I think this applies to almost everyone at some point - not just beginners.
I'm not sure where, but I read an essay by Darwin Ortiz that was called "The Next Book Syndrome", and the advice was along the lines of, instead of buying volumes 1 to 6 of whatever, get volume 1 and when you finish it, you will know if you need volume 2. If you read volume 1 while the other volumes sit on your shelf, you eventually find you are reading volume 2 while not finished with volume 1. I always remember this as I look at my "To Read" pile.
- just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you!
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2211 Posts |
Please make this thread a sticky!
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T. Sebastian Loyal user Ozark Mountains, USA 223 Posts |
Quote: This passage resonates very loudly with me. As far as I'm concerned there are no "rules" for performing magic. (Or any other performance art.) What works for you, works for you. Don't think that you have to change your style to suit the needs of magicians who happen to see you perform. If the audience likes it, and you are getting the desired reactions, then you are doing it right.
On 2007-09-16 06:36, Andy the cardician wrote: Also, I'd like to echo the others who have commented on the usefullness of this thread. Very good advice from everyone. Thanks Andy.
So sorry I soiled your precious eyes.
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gbradburn New user Raleigh, NC 75 Posts |
One of the very best posts I've read at the Café and certainly worthy of a sticky.
As a musician and a magician I can totally relate. Unfortunately, this may be one of the lessons that is best learned from experience. It's hard to convince an aspiring magician by words alone that he doesn't need to buy the latest/greatest effects and that skill can't be bought. Still, hopefully this thread will get the attention of some and give them pause before pulling out their credit card.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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